0:00 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Intro to Martinism and the Elus-Cohen

All right, welcome to another episode of the Atherica podcast. I'm Sky Matthysse joined with the always wonderful Ike Baker and we're going to be talking a little bit about Martinism and the Eloo Cohen in this episode. Um, how you doing today, Ike? >> I'm good. I'm good. I'm happy to be uh with you in the Garden of Astral Delights. >> Yes. All right. So, Martinism. Um, maybe perhaps something revolving around Christian illuminism perhaps. Um, I don't know. You tell me. Maybe we can

0:51 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · What Martinism is and its Christian mystical roots

unpack Martinism a little bit and get into it. >> Yeah. Where do you begin? Um, which which which Martin do you begin with? Uh um I guess to me Martinism as we understand it today as it appears in things like um you know uh the Martinist Order of America of which I've been a member for for a number of years uh or the uh the OM o de Monteneist uh it's essentially an initiatic current um of Christian mysticism. It's it's uh uh so Louis Claude de Samatan he wrote as in in um in uh France of in the 1700s he wrote

1:48 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · What Martinism is and its Christian mystical roots

under the moniker the unknown philosopher um and he wrote a series of tracts um well they were more than tracts they were kind of toms a lot of them uh philosophical treatises uh proper which are uh many of them are available in translation through rose circle books actually um they've been doing great work great work they've got a new uh publication they have a new translation of Martina de pasquali's treatis on the reintegration of beings which I am very happily doing the audio book too so that

2:28 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · What Martinism is and its Christian mystical roots

is a real pleasure um but but there's a lot of stuff just I'll say right out of the gate if anyone is interested in anything that we touch on Rose Circle Publishing, Rose Circle Books. Uh they've got a lot of quality titles that I would highly recommend. I have several of them, but uh Louis Claude de Samatan, the uh um 18th century French philosopher, and I guess you could call him like an early theosophist, not having to do with like actual uh Bllovatzki theosophy. I would say more

3:09 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Louis Claude de Saint-Martin and “the way of the heart”

more along the lines of like proper theosophy of uh Jacob Burman um right specifically Christian within that Christian millu because he understood the heart of the message because the message is the heart um and that's exactly what he called his system the way of the heart. So, um, a lot of what we receive from Martinism actually comes through people like, uh, uh, well, Gerardo, right? Papu, Papus, Papus, a lot of people call him. He actually was the one who started the Martinist order. Um, and there's a joke

3:55 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Louis Claude de Saint-Martin and “the way of the heart”

among Martinists that if Louis claud de Sam Martan saw that an order had been made uh after him, he probably would have been mortified. He would have he may have ordered it disbanded or at least probably tried to have nothing to do with it uh because he didn't initiate that way. Um, and it's it's a very it's a very uh detailed I would say it's a very long story and Martinism is intimately linked with Martinezism. it kind of grew out of that the way Christianity grew out of uh Judaism

4:37 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Martinism’s relationship to Martinezism

um in a similar similar kind of that's an analogy obviously they're not religions but um and they were they operate within a predominantly Christian millu rather than uh Hebraic as far as one can. So uh Louis cla de San Martin he uh he essentially his way was a way of mystic Christian contemplation that was very uh heartfocused um and he distinguished between certain phases of initiation or pre-initiation and um the terms he used were uh sort of I guess the men of error. They dwell in the forest of error. Um kind of

5:28 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Martinism’s relationship to Martinezism

chasing their tails until they become men of desire. Well, I I now desire to know more. And then eventually you become an initiate. Uh but Papu in uh in the early 20th century he started the Martinist order really. Uh before then it was a sort of loose affiliation of students that uh Lu Cla Seamatan had while he was writing um and corresponding with other members of his I guess home system which was the uh the order of knight Mason's elect priests of the universe or elucen for the short for short

6:16 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Martinism’s relationship to Martinezism

and um So we have Martinism now. It's come down uh a lot of different channels. There are a lot of French names uh that are difficult for me to pronounce. But ultimately uh what you can expect from Martinism is a kind of again a threederee system um culminating in these various various steps toward uh reintegration. that is the word that they use. Um and it all comes from the the underlying philosophy comes from what we call Martinezism and that is the teachings uh and the the Christian the

7:08 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Initiation, invitation, and Martinist lineages

Martine de Pasquali. >> Yeah. And so I wonder is it true that traditionally entrance to the true Martinist order is by way of invitation. Um I don't know to be honest with you. Uh it makes sense that that would be the case. So I I can't speak as to tradition. I can say that um I was invited. I had no idea what Martinism was. Um, I've, you know, I've been invited into every esoteric organization I have ever joined. I have never once, never once in my life gone looking for it, not

7:51 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Initiation, invitation, and Martinist lineages

even with masonry. I avoided masonry like the flu. Like I I um because I to me it didn't have the male female balance. Now I understand it for what it is. But um I was definitely invited into what was the Martinist Order of Unknown Philosophers until recently. We had a schism. And we are now as as we are want to do in Martin. Martinism is a history of schisms. There are there are there are as many Martinist orders as there are stars in the night sky. So um but we once again have schismed. I think it can

8:27 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Initiation, invitation, and Martinist lineages

be a very healthy thing. And we're the Martinist Order of America. And I'm very proud to be with that group of men because they're some of the finest initiates and philosophers that uh just good men, you know, good men. That's who you want to be around >> for sure. And so, you know, there are >> men of desire. >> What was that? >> Men of desire. >> Yes. So, there are some texts, some foundational texts that I think are maybe associated largely with Martinism.

8:57 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Jacob Boehme, Christian esotericism, and the Golden Dawn

uh one perhaps maybe you could correct me if I'm wrong but uh like you had mentioned Yakob Burma I always have trouble pronouncing that hopefully I did a good job uh his text Aurora um I don't know is this associated and maybe you could touch a little bit on that text and a little bit about what it encompasses >> I think a lot of things philosophically influenced uh Louis Claude de Sam Martan um and it was a very interesting time he was technically you know uh somebody who didn't

9:29 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Jacob Boehme, Christian esotericism, and the Golden Dawn

I'm not certain certain about his biographical details whether or not he was he was actual nobility but my assumption is that he had to have been because it's the only way that you could have done any of this stuff you know with capes and swords and secret meetings if you don't have to work or like make bread for a living um in uh you know in in in 18th century France but um a man man of education uh for certain a man of letters and um to a degree uh but um I I'm not certain as to how

10:10 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Jacob Boehme, Christian esotericism, and the Golden Dawn

influenced he was by the aurora but I think personally that um I would I would venture to say that 95% of the western esoteric traditions uh were influenced by Yakab Burma because when you get to the core of any of the real initiatic systems that were you know coming about in that time they are all Christian explicitly Christian um you know so that doesn't mean that they can't be like the the the the inner order of the Golden Dawn being a rosy Christian order Christian imagery figuring heavily Even in the outer

10:55 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Jacob Boehme, Christian esotericism, and the Golden Dawn

order, all your admission badges are crosses. And uh you know, all that stuff figuring into this very esoteric mystical Christian conception uh really is the heart of esotericism. An attempt to understand the esoteric meanings, the symbolism of the Christ within. >> I mean, the aurora is what, right? The dawn. That's what that word means. the golden dawn, right? So, uh it's there it's all talking about the same thing, the light of the golden day of uh that kind of cristic initiation, the

11:38 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Jacob Boehme, Christian esotericism, and the Golden Dawn

awakening of the Christ force within us. And um so I'm not certain how to what extent uh Martine or uh uh Louis Claude De Sam Martanam was influenced by Yakab Burmy's work but I do know that they are extremely consonant. I do know that at at heart they are it it's it's Christian mysticism, right? I mean, the Golden Dawn, you go into uh a temple and you're walking around doing a lot of circumambulations and wearing funny headdresses and stuff and uh you have all these tests and

12:15 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Jacob Boehme, Christian esotericism, and the Golden Dawn

these this curriculum to memorize and then you get into the inner order and you're doing proper theology and it's all these reports and things like it's excellent. It's excellent. In Martinism, you retire to your prayer closet. You know, it's it's the way of the heart. It's not the way of the head. It's Christian mysticism uh for for a more modern audience. Um and in the millu of the esoteric uh initiatic format, those those orders. >> Yeah. Yeah. I drew from some of the

12:48 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Reintegration and Martinez de Pasqually’s teachings

symbolism for my philosophical minds podcast symbol. Uh I drew from an image that I came across within the works associated with uh Yakab Irma with like the e eagle or the phoenix kind of transcending and breaking through the oraoris. So he's always kind of interesting for me. Um >> I love that. And then and then what else do you have descending into materiality conferring the Holy Spirit on Christ? A bird, right? The dove. Yeah, I was going um to look at a couple other texts and you kind of I think

13:22 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Reintegration and Martinez de Pasqually’s teachings

touched on it with the like integration aspects and there's the treaties on the reintegration of being which is a work of Pasqual I believe. >> Yeah. >> And maybe you could touch a little bit on that and elaborate a little bit more on this idea of the reintegration of being. >> Yeah. Well, the the first thing that's very important to get out of the way is that we don't want to talk about it in terms of integration because then we're getting into we're getting into into

13:52 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Reintegration and Martinez de Pasqually’s teachings

Yungian psychology and that's not where we're going with any of this. Um there are some aspects of the deconstruction of the self um that the the the recognition of the persona as something of artifice uh that goes into Martinist work particularly you know in the early grades um and in the symbolism of the regalia which um again right it's it's pre modern scientific psychology but the buck doesn't stop there It it again we're talking about it earlier every physical action has a spiritual

14:33 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Reintegration and Martinez de Pasqually’s teachings

consequence and vice versa. So it can't stop at mere psychology and so we don't want to use psychological terms but reintegration as expounded by Martina de Pasquali is the whole uh you know resand of uh since we're talking French men uh of of Martinism and of Louis Claude de Samartan's writings his teachings and and his philosophy um and yes that was expounded by Martina de Pasquali who is I mean just as the years go on he's just more and more like my favorite my favorite dude my favorite character

15:13 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Reintegration and Martinez de Pasqually’s teachings

in the it used to be Wes Scott it's it's definitely Martina Dep Pasquali now in um like if it were a movie but you know like somebody should make a movie of like all these crazy 18th 19th century uh occult orders this cloak and dagger [ __ ] but uh he would be my favorite he He was just a wild man. He was he was a wild man and he had wild ideas. But the interesting thing about Martine Deasquali is that he wasn't just some bumbling lunatic. He managed to convince some of the brightest minds of his place

15:48 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Reintegration and Martinez de Pasqually’s teachings

and time to like join his order as this lay monk uh exorcist, you know. So, it's like it it's incredible the history there. And I would encourage everyone to get the audio book that I'm doing or just or just buy buy uh and read Treatis on the Reintegration of Beings because it's it's mind-blowing that so let me back up. Essentially, we don't know a lot about his life. We don't know a lot about his early life. We don't know a lot about his life details, but there are certain clues

16:24 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Masonic origins and the Elus-Cohen tradition

that are really important. And one is that we discovered um so he's from Spain. He's thought to be a converso which were a a portion of the Jewish population that were forced to um convert to Christianity in Spain in in Spain at that around that time. His his family he's thought to to be that we don't know but he did live in Spain um or he was from Spain. and his family was from Spain. Moved to France. We have uh the Exon historical document is a Masonic charter signed by Bonnie Prince Charlie

17:07 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Masonic origins and the Elus-Cohen tradition

um to his father saying this grants you the rights and titles to uh essentially charter any kind of Masonic lodge or organization that um that you that you want. So it was almost like a blank a blank check for for Masonic Lodge. Um uh excuse me. And uh it said that should should uh the man in whose name uh this charter exists pass away or come to any um you know uh any end or any fate where he would have to turn over his assets. He could he could turn over this, you know, this charter would pass on to his son,

17:58 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Masonic origins and the Elus-Cohen tradition

his eldest son, his uh the primogenature and who which is how uh Martina de Pasquali is believed to have inherited the right to create the Masonic order of the priests elect of the universe. Masonic order, >> right? That's what it is at that time. Um, and they were popping up all over the place. They really were. I mean, people were doing this kind of left and right. That's why the the Grand College of Rights exists today in the United States. It's essentially a museum for all these uh what they consider now

18:39 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Masonic origins and the Elus-Cohen tradition

archaic masonry or clandestine masonry. You know, stuff like Memphis and Miss Ryan. can't practice that no more because it's it's a competitor to to the to the uh the Scottish right. Um and probably a million other political reasons because it's it's masonry, right? So um what they do is they take these rights and they they they give them to the the the rituals they give them to the Grand College of Rights and the Grand College of Rights holds on to them as a kind of tradition but it's

19:09 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Masonic origins and the Elus-Cohen tradition

basically their way of saying like okay we have these now you can't go and do them but uh you can join the Grand College of Rights. They'll send you the rituals and they I believe I'm not 100% sure but they I believe that every once in a while they'll exemplify which means that like okay I'm we're going to do this degree uh from you know Martinism or uh the El Cohen or or something like that but nobody's getting initiated. It's purely for like historical sort of ritual purposes. There's nothing

19:37 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Masonic origins and the Elus-Cohen tradition

initiatic about it. It's just a it's basically a play. So um that's where all that stuff went. But he started uh right along the trajectory of chioalic uh masonry which today the appendent body that is chioalic in masonry is the Yorkrite. Right. It it culminates in the templar the knight templar degree among several other um knight malta and and and things like this. But really the the the culmination of York right is you you become a templar. Um so that's Shioal Shiovalic masonry but he he was working

20:17 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Masonic origins and the Elus-Cohen tradition

in this millu as uh uh sort of this new masonic thing and he was recruiting men among the nobility because you needed time and you needed money because this required uh that you essentially in this group that he had formed this this group of what he called true masonry rectified masonry this is what masonry was supposed to be right that was his conception we've lost lost sight of what masonry is. This is what it was meant to be. This is true masonry. We are we are rendering the cult uh as he would as it

20:52 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Masonic origins and the Elus-Cohen tradition

has been translated. We are rendering the form of worship, the form of honor uh to um you know the grand architect in in in the way that uh it has to be done. We are working toward the reintegration of mankind to the uh to the original estate. And we we'll get into that. Um but so he's he he forms this this this particular form of masonry and he starts recruiting and so what is he recruiting for? We find later on it's actually postumously so he died and a group of his students and I believe Louis Claude

21:30 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Masonic origins and the Elus-Cohen tradition

de San Martan and Jean Baptiste Wileros were two of the students that went and collected his private letters, his journals and his writings on these things and they put them all together into the document that we receive now as the treatise on the reintegration of beings and it essentially elaborates his philosophy which is incredible. Because as you read it, you understand it to be a Gnostic philosophy in the 1700s when none of the Nagam the Nagamati codices weren't discovered until the 1940s.

22:04 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Gnostic parallels, Lucifer, and fallen materiality

You know, there were other extant texts. I I'm I don't know if the Bruce CEX was around back then or the Berlin CEX. I'm I'm not 100% certain as to when those were discovered, but Stuart Cleland actually pointed out to me uh that and I had hadn't thought of it, right? This is how little common sense I have sometimes, but the Cather heresy, the Gnostic Cathther heresy was in the languid dog in in southern France. And so perhaps perhaps it's total speculation, but perhaps there was an

22:37 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Gnostic parallels, Lucifer, and fallen materiality

influence that could have come from there. But overall, it's incredible how to a tea he was with some of these things in terms of uh you know the forms of narcissism from late antiquity. We're talking like uh you know 700 years earlier. It's like it's it's it's just crazy. So um so his philosophy that he expounds is basically this. He says there was the absolute creative god who emanated these hierarchies of beings. Now that's straight out of neoplatanism, right? That's that's the

23:18 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Gnostic parallels, Lucifer, and fallen materiality

Platonic kind of uh really neoplatanist um Platonus Platinus's uh emanative cosmology, right? The one emanates. It's really Pythagorean when you when you look at the Pythagorean material, the tetractis and and the modes of uh of math, the the the math of creation. But so the absolute emanates these these creative spiritual beings, right, in in uh in Platonism, we'd say that the in the uh the beyond the spheres of causality. uh innosticism we would call that the plearoma right so he creates this

24:02 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Gnostic parallels, Lucifer, and fallen materiality

spiritual universe filled with these spiritual beings and the first few spiritual beings prearicate is the translation uh that is often >> what's that mean >> they evade they are deceptive they're sneaky they hide they disobey >> and from that there is ultimately a rebellion culminating in what we understand And it's similar because the Caththers did believe the chief prearicator to be or the the the the the antagonist of this entire spiritual fault to the catheterss was Lucifer. And

24:41 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Gnostic parallels, Lucifer, and fallen materiality

it's the same in the treat treatise on the reintegration of beings. It's Lucifer is the chief proaricator, the fallen angel, the lightbringer. Um he falls because uh of his rebellion and you know his his his proarication is deception right which is to say that his you know his entire modus apparand is his entire mode of being in the world is simply deception. And it it could be it could be said that he is the spiritual principle of deception, right? Especially uh materiality is if anything

25:13 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Gnostic parallels, Lucifer, and fallen materiality

is is is a kind of deception in in a lot of these these uh a hiding an occultation of spiritual realities um uh in a lot of these systems. So he he says that this is this is what has happened. So um God creates Adam as this kind of cosmic overseer, this like prison guard whose job is so he's taken these prearicating spirits, these these rebellious I guess angels and he has thrown them into the pit of materiality. Um and they have uh and and that's essentially here. This is the densest place. This is the as far as you can get

25:54 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Gnostic parallels, Lucifer, and fallen materiality

from the divine is the material reality. And that is that's Platinus. That's uh you know Sethian narcissism. It's al all forms of of this stuff. It's that there's an underlying story here that keeps getting repeated. Slight details are changed, but the the main points are repeated time and time and time again. And then you see it reemerging in the catheterss. You see it reemerging in Pasquali. It's everywhere. Um this is the occult history of the world. And um it's present in the Golden Dawn, the

26:29 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Gnostic parallels, Lucifer, and fallen materiality

modern iteration of the Golden Dawn in the tuna olam, right? That's luranic cabala, the fallen creation, the kipot. That's that's what Golden Dawn works towards rectifying at a certain point. It's all there. Not only that, but when Mats when the Matherses Moina and and Sam Mats moved from London to Paris uh in the the early 1900s and then the whole schism between the Golden Dawn happened and they they opened their their Alpha and Omega and they were doing their their rights of ISIS. They

27:03 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Gnostic parallels, Lucifer, and fallen materiality

actually Sam Mats joined Pepus' Martinist order. Sam Mathers was a Martinist and then he and I think he initiated uh Papus into uh into the Golden Dawn and he he he's quoted as as at one point um either slightly before this or right around this time William Butler Yates who the Irish poet who was uh who was a member of the hermetic order of the Golden Dawn uh recorded in his journals that um I I want to quote this cuz it's kind of cool but I'm I'm going to butcher it. I'm not sure if he said Satan or Lucifer

27:40 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Gnostic parallels, Lucifer, and fallen materiality

or the demi urge, but essentially to paraphrase, he told uh he me he briefly mentioned to to Yates that uh Satan is without a doubt the the Lord of this world, which which to me betrays this very gnostic or or I would say um Martinezistic uh type of conception of the world, particularly around that time when he was joining forces is or or cross-pollinating with the Martinist order um through Pepos. Now, let's just keep in mind Martinism, Martinezism are different. They might as well to experience them as orders on their own.

28:22 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Gnostic parallels, Lucifer, and fallen materiality

They could be totally different things. You know, they do totally different things. Martinism is a great preparation for the yellow cohen, and it is one that I recommend everyone undergo at least. Okay, so to start out the gate with the yellow cohen is [ __ ] crazy and typically things don't end well and we'll get to we'll get to why that is the case. Um but uh so you have this this sort of you have the prearicating spirits that have been cast into the densest furthest part away from the divine the absolute Adam

28:57 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Adam, spiritual amnesia, and humanity’s fragmentation

is created as an overseer to assist in the reconciliation of these beings. Right. Again, tikunam the the the divine spark is in the kipot. It's in the shattered vessels. We can't go until those are rescued too. So evil has to be it can't be cast aside. Evil doesn't get over evil gets overcome by being made good. That's it. Um so so that's true in Cabala. It's true in in according to the Cohen and Martina decl. So, Adam is there to assist in their reconciliation. And what

29:33 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Adam, spiritual amnesia, and humanity’s fragmentation

happens is he is tempted and he falls. Um, he falls into materiality. He falls into fragmentation. And at least the way that I interpret it is that what was a unified consciousness becomes fragmented humanity, divided individualities. We become entrenched in the material illusions again, right? saying it to death in Plato, in Platinus, innosticism, now in this uh you become entrenched in the illusions of materiality and you forget your soul and you forget, right? You drink of the river Leth and you lose your memory of

30:13 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Adam, spiritual amnesia, and humanity’s fragmentation

what was what is beyond. And now Adam, the prison guard, the overseer is the slave. He is the slave to the proaricating spirits. He does their bidding. His impulses are their gratifications. And the work of the Elu Cohen is to exercise these demonic entities, these hostile agents, not only from our own sphere of sensation, but from the sphere from the aura of the earth really of the cosmos working outward. And in that way um through various Christian theoric rights that Martina de Pasquali called from a

30:57 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Exorcism, theurgy, and the mission of the Elus-Cohen

grimoire tradition he then stripped them really mostly of the Hebraic names as far as one can in favor of things like using the names of the evangelists, you know, uh Mark, John, Luke, and Matthew, things like that. he wanted to go strictly old uh strictly New Testament with everything which to a degree I I you know I I'm behind that and that that has to do with the idea that um you know look at Marcianite Gnosticism and and other things like that that equate the the the demiurge with uh the God of the

31:37 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Exorcism, theurgy, and the mission of the Elus-Cohen

Old Testament, right? going from all the thou shalt not all that stuff that's in the Old Testament. Christ never said thou shalt not, you know, he never threatened, you know, uh uh the same kind of things. You'll feel my wrath. You you'll dip the the tongues of your dogs in your enemy's blood and things like that. Um and that's the disparity, right? That's the disparity. You get all these people saying like, "Well, if God loves you so much, why are you going to hell?" It's like, "Well, that's the Old

32:10 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Exorcism, theurgy, and the mission of the Elus-Cohen

Testament, right? They didn't say in the Old Testament that God loves you." The Old Testament was contractual. You do A, I give you B. It's when Christ comes that he says there's there's a God behind the God. There is there is something higher. And that is explicitly what the demiurge is said to be in Valentinian Sethian uh basaliannosticism in in >> Marian Marci too. Yes. uh uh you know even mandan nasticism all these forms ofnosticism a ver that the demiurge is you know there whatever created this

32:51 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Exorcism, theurgy, and the mission of the Elus-Cohen

universe whether or not right sethianism will tell you that it's hostile baselianism valentinianism not so right I believe it's in the val the the basalitian corpus where uh it might be in the exogetica but he talks about how like the coming of Christ actually made the demiurge want to repent and say look I'm sorry I just didn't realize I didn't realize there was anything higher than me. So so you you have you have that conception there too in Pasquali and that was the job of the El Cohen the the

33:26 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Exorcism, theurgy, and the mission of the Elus-Cohen

um the knight mason elect priests of the universe it's that that those degrees are ordinations. You become a priest. It's a laying on of hands. It's not it's not like getting bonked on the head like okay you're with us now you know you you become a priest and essentially you live as a lay priest. You have not been ordained by any formal what you know you would have had to have been Catholic had to have been Catholic. Um and some iterations of the Lu Cohen to this day they will only elect

34:01 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Exorcism, theurgy, and the mission of the Elus-Cohen

Catholics. Um so um he's pulling from nobility because they have the time and the money because essentially there are daily prayers, there are morning prayers, there are night prayers, there are theurgic uh operations. You need to have an oratory that is secluded. You have to have certain uh weaponry, right? It's shavalic masonry. You're a knight, you need a sword. It's, you know, it's all that kind of stuff. And knights were not poor people. Knights were the nobility. That's people get it twisted. The the

34:33 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Exorcism, theurgy, and the mission of the Elus-Cohen

noblemen um of that era were were the fighting men. Really? >> Yeah. Okay. And then how about um uh of errors and truth by Louis Claude de Sam Martan? Um what is the kind of general overview of this text? Um well I I believe that's where he goes into the idea of um the forest of errors and uh men of desire and he starts expounding this philosophy that kind of begins to scrape away or like scratch away at that remember cuz he wasn't writing for like an order. There was no order. He wasn't writing for mere

35:31 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Key Martinist texts and Papus

esotericists. He was writing for educated people that understood um philosophy in general. And what he really was combating was this kind of you know materialism that that existed uh even even in under the opaces of something like the you know the religious authority of that time um I mean France is such an interesting place >> I'd love to go there um the thing about it is that it has given us men of spiritual genius. And it also gave us the Marquee Desad. >> What's that? >> So, what's that?

36:14 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Key Martinist texts and Papus

>> What is that? >> Oh, you got to look that up. That's a whole other episode, my friend. >> I've never even heard that. >> You know, I never heard of the Marque Desad. >> No. >> Okay. That's where we get the term sadistic from. >> Okay. >> So, think about this. was a man who uh had like orgies of underage people and he would just uh like violent sex just it's insane. You you I wouldn't recommend you read him. It's probably

36:40 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Key Martinist texts and Papus

going to leave like a little black smudge on your soul for the rest of your life. But do do the Wikipedia do the cliff notes of the marquee desad. Okay. So that's kind of been France for it's like you have you know um uh these great geniuses and then you have men like uh this people like Voltater. We [ __ ] hate it. I hate Voltaare. Um but anyway so so it's it's basically that I would I would call of Eros and Truth the primer for like if somebody were were to come to me and say I'm I'm

37:11 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Key Martinist texts and Papus

interested in Martinism. Okay here's the first book that you're going to read. It's heavy. It's big but get it through Rose Circle. And how about what becomes of the dead by Papus which I also think his name is Gerard Enas is that >> Giron Anko or something like that you know like it's like French they don't present they don't they don't pronounce like the last eight word eight letters or something >> um I I I have not read much by Papu or Papus I have read. I haven't read that.

37:49 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Key Martinist texts and Papus

I have read uh an elementary treatise on practical magic which is it's like too theosophical for my tastes. It's it >> uh and I've read the Tarot of the Bohemians which was excellent. I love the Tarot of the Bohemians, right? Cuz again, you have >> it was such a weird time, right? um France Anton Mesmer coming about uh you know around the same time I think it was the early 1700s it was basically doing reike key for French people uh you know and this idea of animal magnetism you had

38:30 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Key Martinist texts and Papus

the theosophical society come in at the same time there was this burgeoning uh new scientific revolution and you had all of these communities attempting to explain the mechanisms and the rationale for stuff that really has no still no scientific uh explanation, right? Otherwise, it wouldn't be mysteries. We call them the mysteries for a reason. Um but they were attempting to explain these things uh using what the the the vernacular of of early scientism really and it it comes across as as ridiculous

39:12 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Key Martinist texts and Papus

uh now when you read it because and I I mentioned this in my latest video which which is about to go up uh tomorrow. They didn't realize what was going on at the time because they're all fighting for a space in the new world, right? It's it's like finder, right? End of the century Europe. And they're all fighting for these ideals, theosophical ideals, hermetic magical ideals. uh um you know uh Louis Pastor and germ theory and all this this stuff like that and the Theosophical Society and the you know

39:47 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Key Martinist texts and Papus

these these theurgic Christians they're all fighting for space and in in the overarching uh intellectual community dialogue and the language that it's taking place in is this new scientific vernacular this new way of looking at at all systems. It's a it's a in the truest sense it is becoming the paradigm and they're all trying to explain what what they specialize in or what they believe through that language. And what what what the issue is is that anytime you use one system to examine

40:20 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Key Martinist texts and Papus

something, you take that thing and you place it within the paradigm of that system and now that's the only way that you can explain it. And so with with with scientific materialism, positivism, reductionism, there you you there can be no examination of the spirit of the spiritual based on an a priority basis. If you can't explain it physically, but it still occurs. You have to find a physical explanation whether that is the truth of the matter or not. So, so, um, you know, you were having a lot of that stuff and I I see

40:54 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Key Martinist texts and Papus

that some of that come off in in uh in Papus's, uh, elementary treatis on practical magic. So, it's not my favorite and but Tarot of the Bohemians is fant I mean, I would even I would recommend just reading the introduction anybody who's interested in uh in the occult in general. So, that is a very long way of saying I have no idea. >> I apologize. >> No worries. And uh okay so in terms of old sources or initiates I read something and I'll I'll read it and then you can respond. Um known in the occult

41:27 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Schisms, secrecy, and politics in Martinism

circles of today Henry Deug deluj uh wrote a number of books of which doctrines de societies secretes published in 1852 is probably the most wellknown. Papus exchanged initiations with Chab Chabasu. The reason being >> Chabaso. Yeah. >> Okay. The reason being an uncertainty about one of the initiated in the lineage of Papus. It was unknown who initiated Henry de Deluj. This statement was made by how do you say that again? Cha Chaba Chabasu. >> Chabaso. >> Chabaso himself. And

42:10 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Schisms, secrecy, and politics in Martinism

>> that's how I say it. Did I say Shabaso? >> Shabaso himself in an interview by Gerard von Renberg published in his book on Martinez de Pasquual. So I was wondering like this uh do you know anything about this Henry Deluj figure or this or or yeah Chab Chabaso? Um, I don't really uh particularly about Henry Deluji. Uh, I'm assuming he's French, but um, I do know that for my own tastes, uh, it's right around this point in time where like [ __ ] just gets too hairy for

42:50 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Schisms, secrecy, and politics in Martinism

my taste really. Um, and because it becomes this pissing contest that has been the black, >> it's it's but it's just the black stain of Martinism, you know. Um, >> and I think one of the reasons for that is that it's still it still resembles masonry at least more than the Golden Dawn does. Um, and there are certain types that are drawn to a very Masonic kind of hierarchy in order to make their mark or uh, you know, rub some elbows. And um, it that's becoming less and less

43:33 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Schisms, secrecy, and politics in Martinism

a thing, right? Because like, you know, the heads of like corporations and things like that are they're not they're not masons anymore, you know? I don't know what they are. I'm not sure they know what they are, but um but uh that's probably a good thing. But um uh it's at that point if you look into the history of Martinism, it kind of all just goes drastically downhill um pretty quickly. Pretty quickly. And you still see the ramifications of that because now not only is it like France, it's

44:07 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Schisms, secrecy, and politics in Martinism

like London, it's America. There's all these these all these um schisms and and splinter orders and things like that and uh the internet has not helped much. Um having access to kind of like computer translation programs that has not helped much. You just throw throw a tech like I don't know you know scan a text on your phone and have it translated for you and then sell it. Uh I'm not I'm not 100% sure that that's done great things for uh for modernism. So, uh, again, I'm not

44:40 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Schisms, secrecy, and politics in Martinism

really I'm not great with the the politics particularly of, uh, uh, especially of Martinism. And I think that a lot of that also has to do with the fact that it doesn't interest me, uh, the same way that the Golden Dawn stuff interests me. That stuff interests me because it's not >> it's not this kind of like, who let him in? I didn't let him in. Did you let him in? No, I I didn't let him in. Then how do you get in? It's not it's not that kind of stuff with the Golden Dawn. With

45:10 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Schisms, secrecy, and politics in Martinism

the Golden Dawn, it's like this bat [ __ ] crate like the horos scandal. I mean, just the wildest stuff that you couldn't even uh dream up if you tried. So, it just more colorful characters, more women, you know, which it's to me there's always more >> like women. >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean the thing is there well I mean in in ritual there's more magic with them than without him. Um but uh you know just more personalities more it seems more real life than this kind of it at a certain

45:45 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Schisms, secrecy, and politics in Martinism

point like masonry the the the the narcissism of minor differences it becomes so petty that it resembles like a Monty Python skit to me. So, uh, I I I really I can't really be bothered with a lot of that stuff, but you might be on to something pretty cool. And so, that's that's something I think that I'll definitely at the very least check out and turn my eye towards because, you know, there could be something interesting there. I don't know enough about it to kind of like poo poo it. But

46:17 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Elus-Cohen requirements and Masonic ritual context

all this is to say that when I do see like schism stuff like that, I I tend to turn away because we're now now we're now we've diverged from why I'm here, which is the spiritual, >> right? >> Yeah. >> So, let's let's get more into a little bit of the alooen. Um, so you had mentioned, I think you were alluding to the notion of the alocco being heavily associated with or forming out of the Masonic structure. Was this something that was was it was it Masonic in origins? Was it

46:52 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Elus-Cohen requirements and Masonic ritual context

pre-Masonic? Um, do you have to be a Mason to be invited into the Aluku Cohen or what's maybe what's up with all that? Um, I'm pretty sure that you would need to you would need to have fulfilled a couple of requirements. One, you would have to be a man. Two, you'd have to be of age, right? Lawful age. And you'd have to be a Catholic first and foremost. And you would also have to be a Mason. Um because um these societies you could get in way more [ __ ] trouble back then than you

47:32 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Elus-Cohen requirements and Masonic ritual context

can today. It's not about you know like I'm not I'm not [ __ ] on anybody, but you got to point out absurdity when you see it. And like to say that something is a secret and then have a Facebook page >> is crazy. So it just doesn't make sense. So um back then it was secret like secret by the standards of old like we're denying this the existence of this entire thing and you know and you see vestages of that in Martinism it's part of the regalia it symbolizes something but you wear a mask

48:07 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Elus-Cohen requirements and Masonic ritual context

you like when you when you come in you're not and all the people sitting around you interrogating you are wearing masks still to this day because they had to preserve you know uh their identity because well numerous reasons right there were a lot of political things going on French Revolution and you know Bonnie Prince Charlie the pretender you had so much going on in those couple hundred years of political overturn and turmoil that if you were a group of men found to be meeting in a basement

48:37 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Elus-Cohen requirements and Masonic ritual context

talking about you know truth and and self- sovereignty and things like that you could be arrested and like you know uh thrown in um in the best evil for the rest of your life, you know, just throw away the key. So they there was a strict admonition to secrecy. Um, and so you wouldn't really have understood anything in the El Cohen uh unless you understood Masonic ritual. And that's true of most that's true of most re like I I went into my first Golden Dawn ritual and I'm like, "Boy, this is cool. I bet it means

49:15 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Elus-Cohen requirements and Masonic ritual context

stuff." But once you once you become a mason and you've been doing that for a while, like I've only been a mason for a little over a year, but I mean I have participated in ritual almost every single, you know, like I'm moving through the chairs and and I'm I'm I'm giving I'm doing degree work regularly. So I'm I'm very I'm getting familiar with it. And um it's really that is the uh that's the template. Masonry, Masonic ritual is the template for everything that comes after

49:48 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Elus-Cohen requirements and Masonic ritual context

it. You you you will have uh you won't really be able to understand what's going on unless you you have exposure to that stuff, particularly within Blue Lodge context. >> So um yeah, I mean it was kind of its own thing, but the spirit behind it was we're going to rectify masonry. this is what masonry was supposed to be. And you see that poke through then in, you know, Jean Baptiste will Moses' rectified Scottish right, right? He he's saying, well, this is what the Scottish right

50:19 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Elus-Cohen requirements and Masonic ritual context

was supposed to be. And and so you have all these people running around thinking that they have the key to what masonry is and how it can help. And nobody has any keys. I mean, if anyone did have a key to, I want to say the substantive ground of the, you know, uh, cosmogonical, uh, layout. I'd say it would be Pasquali. I don't know how he got that key, but he managed to convince a number of people. And he did this with not not with words, not with philosophy. He didn't he he couldn't write in French.

50:59 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Elus-Cohen requirements and Masonic ritual context

He wrote phonetically. So that because it wasn't his first language. So you can imagine what a nightmare that has to be for people who who are trying to translate, you know, modern-day scholars, you know, people like uh Michael Osborne, Steuart Klen that are translating Stuart Kleen translated his letters. Michael Osborne um translated his letters and treatis on the reintegration. It's got to be a little bit of a nightmare, you know. uh trying to to uh translate in phonetic French from the 17th uh from the 1700s.

51:33 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Elus-Cohen requirements and Masonic ritual context

>> Sure. >> So, it's not like he was convincing people with his words. Um as far as I understand, he's been explained, you know, some people have kind of like I think I've even been done it, but we've we've kind of there's been this idea that he's uh illiterate. He wasn't illiterate. He just he he didn't you French was not his primary language at least uh in p on paper. So what he was doing is he was and this is what the yellow cone is based on. It's based on proofs. You

52:05 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Elus-Cohen requirements and Masonic ritual context

don't get to move to the next grade until you there's a list at least in the modern iterations. There's a list of symbols and sigils and things like that, names. And so your, you know, your chapter, your chapter master has this book and you perform these theoric rights by yourself and then you are supposed to receive these symbols. you go back, you write it in your journal, you show it to the chapter master, and um he tells you whether or not you can move on because this the symbol has

52:43 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Elus-Cohen requirements and Masonic ritual context

to match what's what has already been received and is in that book. Um, so it's it's based on proofs and one of the things that we don't know exactly what Pasquali was doing, but we do have letters from Jean Baptiste Willer to Louis Claude to Sam Martan while they were his students saying, you know, Willer Mo is basically complaining, how come I don't get the results, the physical results, like the the tangibility in these magical operations that Pasquali that our teacher got and and and um Sam Martan

53:21 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Elus-Cohen requirements and Masonic ritual context

basically tell tells him like look we can't lust after results. He was a very special man. He was very gifted. All we can do is keep keep doing the work. And eventually I think it was like I think I think Jean Baptiste will mo was maybe in his 40s or 50s before he he had that moment where like oh I did something. We're not really sure 100% what it was, whether there was some kind of manifestation, divisible appearance, or we don't know what it was, but apparently this was one of the ways by

53:49 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Elus-Cohen requirements and Masonic ritual context

which Martina Depasali was convincing people like, "Look, I'm the real deal. I'm not some illusionist, and I'm not just some guy running around here um claiming to know the secrets of masonry." So, uh so that that's a very interesting thing. and and I uh I don't know what it is, but I can tell you that reading him is I couldn't even believe that uh you know, learning about Gnosticism first. I learned about Gnosticism first. You will typically see Gnostic little churches associated with

54:23 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Meaning of “Elus-Cohen” and its symbolism

Martinist groups. Now, they're not formally affiliated, but they're they're kind of like these sister organizations. Uh and and that's why really is because the core philosophy of it is extremely gnostic in in the traditional sense, right? And I'm talking about in you know late late antique gnosticism of the first few centuries C. I'm not talking about s Ionor or any kind of like punk rock ethos that you want to try and thrownosticism onto like we're talking about actual theological cosmological

54:57 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Meaning of “Elus-Cohen” and its symbolism

nasticism. >> And so how about um origins or meaning of the name Aloo Cohen? Is there anything there as far as we can tell with, you know, like what is what does that does that mean anything in particular or where's that word come those words come from? >> I don't know if it's a Semitic loan word that was actually adopted to French. Um cuz I don't know French, but I do know that in Hebrew Cohen means priest and elu I'm pretty sure that's got to be French. Uh means elect. So, Elu Cohen just means

55:34 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Meaning of “Elus-Cohen” and its symbolism

the elect priests. And elect means like you were you were invited into this and um you not just by me, you were chosen, you were chosen by something higher to do this. That at least is my interpretation of it, right? Because these would have been men of fate, providence, grace. >> Um they would have believed in those things. They were, you know, they were Catholics doing magic. >> Let me know if you can see my screen. >> I see I think I see it, but I don't see anything on it. Oh, here we go. That's

56:16 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Meaning of “Elus-Cohen” and its symbolism

the banner. >> Okay. So, is this the um symbol of the Elo Cohen or the Martin order or >> No, no, no. That's that's the um that's the Elo Cohen symbol. That's you won't I it it depends um because some organizations I don't know I write I can only speak for my own um there are obviously translations that have been done by uh Stuart Mlen who also he translated the green book of the Lu Cohen um but within modern organizations I don't know if they include that on

57:01 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Meaning of “Elus-Cohen” and its symbolism

their letter head. >> I I'm not really sure what they include that on, but you typically you would not see that in the Martinist order. Um that's that's for the the Lu Cohen. >> Okay. And is there any particular I assume there's some meaning behind all of this. Um is there anything you could speak to about what it looks like? I don't know. Like a bunch of arrows and you know it's got like the Star of David in the middle. Um >> yeah well I mean so right you've got

57:37 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Meaning of “Elus-Cohen” and its symbolism

you've got um there's a lot here. So the principle I'll say this much you see the hexog in the middle. >> Mhm. >> That is the principles that's the principal symbol of Martinism. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um that also is as we know right that's the that's Solomon's seal >> of uh you know the greater and lesser key that is the seal of Solomon and Solomon was what it was a demon hunter >> right that's those are the 72 demons of the the the Goetia

58:20 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Meaning of “Elus-Cohen” and its symbolism

>> um Solomon according to lore or you know uh he imprisoned them and they did his bidding. Um so not only that but that is the symbol of reintegration. That right there the the hexog that is also for anyone who's familiar with the golden dawn that's on the banner of the east. That is also the symbol of of a Golden Dawn adept is that hexog and it looks >> so that would be Go ahead. >> Oh, well I don't know. I was going to say it looks like there might be seven stars surrounding that but it maybe I

59:01 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Meaning of “Elus-Cohen” and its symbolism

don't I can't tell if the top one or the bottom one are stars or not. Well to me I in that I see the these seven planetary spheres. I was thinking >> right uh almost resembling an oraorus, right? The snake eating its tail, the tail eater. And then from there we have um we have banners and spears numbering in 12. So the 12 tribes of Israel, the 12 signs of the zodiac. Um you've got ultimately the crown um at at the top, right? That's kind of I don't want to start interpolating too much,

59:48 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Meaning of “Elus-Cohen” and its symbolism

>> but it's essentially this is this is, you know, this right here is kind of similar to also the the symbol of the rose, you know, in in in the Golden Dawn. >> Um, you've got planetary. It's also it's also this resembling the this themeic model of the universe, right? You have you've got the seven planetary spheres um radiating outward from our uh geocentric position and then you have uh the the fixed the fear of the sphixed stars the firmament and that has what

1:00:32 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Meaning of “Elus-Cohen” and its symbolism

the the constellations of the zodiac on the the the outer sphere. Um so to me this is you got to remember that it was theurgic right as well as uh a grimoire style. So there's the incorporation of the shimme right the in there there's there's always things in these lines are are usually paired by sizzy right they have they have an upright and an inversion they have these reflections so you you've got there's 72 demons in the goatia uh of Solomon but there's 72 angels that form the you know the the holy the

1:01:21 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Meaning of “Elus-Cohen” and its symbolism

great divine name of God. So there there are rituals that incorporate that kind of stuff at least in the in in more modern iterations. Um but it's a symbol of reintegration and ultimately of the which incorporates which incorporates you know solommonic elements. I because it's all one thing right think about it. Yeah, >> you got the grimoire tradition which comes out of what? The grimoire tradition comes out of the PGM and not exclusively the PGM but that tradition, right? Greco Egyptian

1:02:00 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Shem HaMephorash, angels, and zodiacal correspondences

conjuration. You know, they have the the crafting, consecration and wearing of the filactory. They have um similar tools and implements and they have the magical circle and they work within the same paradigm, right? the the the hebdomad of the seven planets, the you know the the the the uh constellations of the fixed sphere. It's all the same stuff. You just had Catholic priests doing it throughout the Middle Ages and Renaissance and that's how that stuff got transmitted to what we call the grimoir tradition. But

1:02:35 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Shem HaMephorash, angels, and zodiacal correspondences

ultimately it came from that millu that we keep going back to that Alexandrian Egyptian Greek Roman synretatism. >> Okay. So, I've got a question. So these 72 angels or the shemahesh are these so you said they comprise the name of God and are they synonymous with the name of God in terms of like uh yod vave in terms of the old testament what you would refer to as like the demi urge or these separate are like the more divine architect um above the demi urge or >> well from my understanding of the shem

1:03:15 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Shem HaMephorash, angels, and zodiacal correspondences

Freshesh I believe it's I forget which chapter it is but it's it's verses 1920 and 21 forget which chapter um in H I think it's I think it's Exodus and essentially what the Hebrew cabalists did right it was the cabalists so these are people that are going based on uh they're going based on a mystical interpretation of this stuff. Um, they took those three lines. They noticed that they were comprised of the same amount of letters. Three times in a row, they had the same letters, the same

1:03:56 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Shem HaMephorash, angels, and zodiacal correspondences

amount, same number of letters. So, they stacked them one over the other, three lines. And then as they went down, they had three lettered names, right? Three lines, three letters to each name. And then you end up with 72 names, permutations, and you just add um you add like the divine suffix like L uh or e, you know, uh uh or or or l to the to the end of that. And you end up with um with the 72 names of the Shempherish which then correspond to uh the deans, right? Uh not the deans, I'm sorry, the

1:04:48 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Shem HaMephorash, angels, and zodiacal correspondences

the quinnes. >> The deans are >> So you have the 360 degrees of a circle. >> That's what we're looking at for the zodiac. The zodiac. Um, if you're picturing like a natal chart, it's just a circle, but that circle is divided, right? That circle is meant to represent the ecliptic, which is the path of the sun, uh, or the apparent path of the sun because we know that the sun isn't orbiting the earth, although it is moving. Um, so that's what that circle represents and that that the ecliptic

1:05:29 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Shem HaMephorash, angels, and zodiacal correspondences

passes through the constellations of the zodiac. That's why we we have those constellations there and not other ones, right? There are lots of constellations, but the sun doesn't pass in front of them. So, so those zodiacal signs, those constellations are the ones that are comprised of the zodiac. It's just the ecliptic. >> You separate that into 12, right? Traditionally, those So, how do what does that end up being? Right? If you separate 360° into 12 equal parts, you end up getting

1:06:05 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Pentacles, talismans, and protective tools

um 36 segments of 10° arcs. So each zodiacal uh sort of segment of this pi is comprised of 30° each one being you know you can look at it like three segments of 10 degrees. Those are the deans. You divide that then into um you know five divisions of five. You then have the coinances. Hence that that prefix queen quintis you know five. >> Oh yes. and and that gives you that gives you um 72 segments and each one is ascribed to uh one of the angels of the Shem Hphesh. Each one of those each one of those

1:06:59 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Pentacles, talismans, and protective tools

angels is a particular aspect of the totality of of uh the creative god let's say the demiurge great architect of the universe right and so she had mentioned exorcism uh within the el cohen so I wanted to ask you about these pentacles are these associated somehow in relation with exorcisms within the Elo Cohen. Um, so as far as I am aware, I'm not I'm not sure, but I'll tell you this much. Um, one of the things that you use is a you have a pentacle which is essentially a filactory,

1:08:00 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Pentacles, talismans, and protective tools

right? It's a it's a it's a protective amulet. It it has an apotropeic usage which is one that is protective in terms of the spirit realms and of magic and luck circumstance things like this. But you the the hexogs are typically your your filactory. Um there are certain geometrical figures within a magical circle. Um I'm not certain about those ones that you just showed. Um I have used other ones but uh the thing is um you even have that like in the hermetic order of the golden dawn

1:08:44 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Pentacles, talismans, and protective tools

right a filactory is normally worn around the neck it's something you it's like an amulet >> and so that that rests that rests on your breastplate and that's true of when you when you become superior in ku unknown superior that's kind of the third degree of martinism you get that martinis pentacle. Um, now you're not you're not supposed to take anything of a metallic nature into that into your circle of evocation. >> So, you essentially have to create a new filactory. Typically, I think it was

1:09:16 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Pentacles, talismans, and protective tools

made out of wood or wax. Um, but you can make it out of any sturdy paper. And you would take that into the circle with you as a protective sort of amulet that you either wear or keep near you. And the same is true of the Golden Dawn because you wear sashes in the Golden Dawn and uh the the place on the Adept sash where the hexog is the the solar hexog right it's it's the hexog represents uh really the sun and because you've got each of the six angles right is attributed to to to six planets but that vacant space the

1:09:57 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Pentacles, talismans, and protective tools

blank space in in the center is where the sun occupies that position. So the six implies the seven. Um, and you also have that right over your heart where it would be hanging on the Golden Dawn's adept sash. And uh, yeah. So, I would some of those pentacles in certain iterations of that. I haven't used those ones, but again, I'm coming from, you know, there are I don't want to say too much here, but you got to be careful with this stuff. It's not it's not what we're talking about here is not as

1:10:41 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Pentacles, talismans, and protective tools

like open as the Golden Dawn or even Freemasonry. So, some of this stuff can't get talked about too much, but um I've not, >> let's put it this way, I have not yet used those. >> And are you able to decipher any of the information and what these are depicting? Are these symbols besides the like the Star of David kind of um imagery with the other stuff in here? I mean, I see like, you know, the crosses or whatever that are attached to the corners, but as far as those those other

1:11:20 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Pentacles, talismans, and protective tools

symbols, they're pretty unfamiliar to me. Are those anything that you're aware of? So the crosses and the hexogs are intimately familiar to me, but I'm I not understanding the other writings. But again, we're talking about now if these are if these are called from uh from Elo Cohen documents, we're talking about something that is reliant upon the individual receiving uh figures, sigils, and then having to report back. Okay. uh test what they got against what others got to have some

1:12:01 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Rituals, operations, and protocols explained

kind of um well we would call it a proof. Uh now in a lot of everything that you're doing with filactory and grimoire stuff, all that stuff, there's a sacramentary portion to it in in the grimoire tradition. You're which is a making holy. You're making these items holy, right? By you're exercising them first as mundane material. You do the same thing with a talisman. That's what they are. These are talismanic weapons. um of a protective and you know one that will ultimately command forth and bind

1:12:43 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Rituals, operations, and protocols explained

uh or or comand in general whatever you're calling but they have to become talismanic uh and in some forms of talisman and this is just kind of an interesting aside but in in some forms of talismanic magic particularly in like esoteric dowoism those symbols are like channeled they appear in the mind's eye or they appear as sort of like anetheric vision perhaps as a sparkle or something like that. Or they appear they they manifest a visible appearance in incense smoke which is a it's you know it's it's part of the

1:13:17 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Rituals, operations, and protocols explained

whole grimoire synthe is is being able to en invisage things in the smoke um uh at least at first. So um and a lot of these things were channeled and they were private and their meanings were kept private. And so depending on the context of of of those sigils um they could be you know they are like likely uh received sigils rather than something that is inculcated. In other words, you might have to test your findings against that because that's what somebody else uh kind of got. and and so uh I those

1:13:59 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Rituals, operations, and protocols explained

sigils are completely unfamiliar to me at this point. >> Yeah. Now is there a difference between uh operations, rituals andor protocols or all of these along the same lines? Protocols are are components of rituals or operations that are formulaic. Rituals Ritual is something that is done uh as it implies with a certain type of repetition. The protocol of a ritual might be the ritual format. The the protocol of a ritual might be what you say and when you say it or what you wear, you know, or at what time. That's a big one. Mhm.

1:14:49 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Rituals, operations, and protocols explained

>> Um particularly in the in the El Cohen and in all magic of evocation, the chyros of the moment, the astrological protocols that you have that have to be and astronomical uh protocols that have to be adhered to. So those are, you know, and and even like like a prerequisite protocol and a lot of the Elohen stuff you there's certain fasting, there's abstinence from from sexual activity. uh you live like a lame monk if you're really doing it. If you're really working the system, it's

1:15:21 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Rituals, operations, and protocols explained

extremely demanding for somebody who's like not not you know in any way being renumerated for their for their time financially. Um because even priests are right. So um so those are protocols. Rituals are typically these lengthy things that are meant to convey a sense of drama and the drama is one that is um inherently it contains uh symbolic or mythic images. So I guess in right I I like I said ear in another conversation I don't want to over psychize stuff or earlier in this conversation I don't

1:16:02 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Rituals, operations, and protocols explained

want to over psychize stuff but I think a really good way to analogize it for modern people is to say that a ritual in some sense will typically embody an archetype um and enact that pattern forth in d in dramatic format and and typically maybe not in in in in lower level or very, you know, or even very popularized forms of the ritual. Maybe not there in those instances, but typically there is some kind of random component or ecstatic component that the ritual builds to. It's it's at the the apex of the

1:16:42 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Rituals, operations, and protocols explained

climactic point. >> Okay. Yeah. acts have come across was like the ritual or the operation of the equinoxes. Um the operation of the new moon. >> Yeah, we're getting into it now. >> Yeah, which I don't really know exactly what they entail, but they were just some things I was talking around. >> An operation an operation I would say is different from a ritual. Um, ritual typically implies I mean they could be synonymous depending on who you're talking to, but I would say that the verbiage we're

1:17:20 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Rituals, operations, and protocols explained

talking about is basically toggling between theurgic, grimoiric, and supplicatory, right? We're not talking about supplication anymore. Supplication is a huge motive. Uh it's a huge motivating factor behind ritual meaning giving thanks or worship tribute honor right when we say worship honor um um attempting to to uh um ask for something um or pray for something or receive guidance for something or to initiate somebody could be a ritual. It's lengthy. It's it has these these these

1:18:01 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Rituals, operations, and protocols explained

particular uh repetitive um formulas. Now that it can that can be said about what I'm what I'm about to say about operations, but operations for me that's that's a way of referring to um like goedic >> ritual essentially where it's an operation. I'm I'm conducting this with an amount of specificity. Uh I am following these things to a tea. I am writing about them later on in my in my quote unquote magical but quasi scientific journal, right? So I can look back at my results. And um I'm doing

1:18:44 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Rituals, operations, and protocols explained

this for the purposes of education. I of evocation and and it's a little bit more serious. It's not supplication. I'm not asking a God to intervene. We're always working in the power of coming in the power of Christ, you know, like it's it's always that is that is what enables the grimoire magician. That is what enables the uh you know the Christian theist to do their work. It's not them, it's Christ working through them, you know. Uh, so I would say that in in in

1:19:19 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Rituals, operations, and protocols explained

those sort of like grimoire things, I've seen more like this is this is an operation. Um, I'm doing a specific working. I'm working, right? That's what the is, God working. Whereas a ritual uh tends to be a little a little different. I'm I'm getting like, you know, like these images in my head of uh druids kind of circling around a fountain or something. That's way different than like uh a the like an El Cohen theorist like basically screaming in his oratory pointing his you know pointing a sword

1:19:51 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Rituals, operations, and protocols explained

at a human skull. They're like very different things, you know. Definitely. Okay, so I found this one and this says underneath it theurgic diagram of the yellow coins. Uh this is from French National Library. Uh is any of this symbolism familiar to you? It looks like up in the right says enoke. Um, uh, we've got tetra grammaton within one of those circles. >> Zoom in a little bit actually. Um, it does look familiar. This is essentially essentially what's on the floor is is uh it's the triple circle. It's it's it's

1:20:28 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Rituals, operations, and protocols explained

sort of like the triple that's the magical circle right there. Um, uh, for certain operations. Now again some of these symbols uh again how how many of us are working with so you see how it says at the bottom an original document not everybody works from original documents. So that's, >> you know, that's that's kind of like this this pushpull give and take thing where it's like the Elo Cohen died a long time ago. And some people fight me on that, but much of what we do is reconstructionist in a

1:21:09 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Rituals, operations, and protocols explained

lot of the orders. You know, there are some I do know for a fact that there are some working the original documents, the original rituals, but um >> uh >> this one, >> how much of that is how much of that is actually straight out of the lineage is is not sure to me, but I do know that that that is essentially the magical circle. There's just all these different accutramon. There's all these different uh symbols around it that that I'm assuming you get at different grades or

1:21:39 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Rituals, operations, and protocols explained

or different levels. >> Yeah, it's very interesting. And then there's this pentacle of Karen looks like and then stated to 16th >> Kunrath. Okay. And it's got some Hebrew letters there in the middle. Can you Can you zoom in? I'm having a hard time seeing it on my computer above your heart. Yep. Found that one. It's kind of cool. No. No. >> It's basically saying it's B TB oddsum. uh to you to you odd to to you to you to all which is probably my shitty Latin translation. And there's

1:22:32 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Rituals, operations, and protocols explained

some there's an admon there's an admonition of of of something above or something above your heart. And then obviously we have the the um pentagramaton here. Yod shin vave. Um again kind of a triple circle the pentagram in the middle. This is I mean this is a it's a this is a filactory essentially. It's a it's a a a Christian uh theurgic filactory. Now that's essentially pentacle does not come from the like there's a difference between a pentacle and a pentacle right and and it's a very

1:23:16 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Rituals, operations, and protocols explained

subtle difference pentacle is is pentacle is five pentacle comes from the Latin paculum which means hung by the neck >> like hung around the neck >> you know so basically like a collar or a chain so that when you see pantacle that automatically tells you that it's going to hang around your neck like a filactory, like a protective amulet or something to that effect. Whereas a pentacle just implies a five-pointed or a f, you know, a a figure with five angles. Okay. So, you mentioned earlier that you

1:23:53 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Dangers of advanced Elus-Cohen practices

probably wouldn't want to jump right into the Elhu Cohen of things. Um, it wouldn't end well uh if you were to start out with that. Maybe you could >> that's that's my opinion. >> Yeah, you could elaborate a little bit on that. >> Sure. I mean, so think about everything that we've been saying. Evocation, exorcism, uh kind of this this Christian conception, this Christian model of of demonic and angelic forces. So you put two and two together. What does an organization like the Eloo Cohen

1:24:35 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Dangers of advanced Elus-Cohen practices

do, right? You have protocols. You got to make incense. You got to do incense blends. You know, you have to prepare like preparing weaponry. There's a sacramentary which is it is a ritual. It also is a protocol. You have to exercise the mundane materials with which you will be working in a sacred space and you have to you have to invoke the blessings of of of uh Christ and the absolute into that work and then you go forth and essentially right we're talking about a a grimoiresque theurgic tradition where you are

1:25:18 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Dangers of advanced Elus-Cohen practices

essentially exercising uh demonic entities from uh the sphere of the earth really and so you want to jump into that after you like you know you went from buying crystals >> can't even handle some of my dreams that I have right now >> that's that's what I'm saying I mean like like even the initiations themselves are divine to or are designed to stir things up within you you will be well I mean take the doctrine the hermetic doctrine of the m microcosm in the macrocosm,

1:25:54 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Dangers of advanced Elus-Cohen practices

right? Whatever's in here is out there and vice versa. If I'm calling to the four dark, let's say clific entities, if I am calling inverse entities into um my my triangle of art or my my magical oratory, what do you think is going to happen in the microcosm? It's going to have the there's going to be a resonance. that's going to call forth the dark [ __ ] in you. And if you're not prepared by several stages of purification of initiation, but I don't mean Christian moralizing, you know,

1:26:32 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Dangers of advanced Elus-Cohen practices

like, well, you know, I don't say bad words anymore. That's not what I'm talking about. Purification, you know, it it's there's a purification of the energetic body. There's a purification of the mental diet. There's a purification of of of the astral components of your being, you know, where things are more integrated. you have more control. You exercise more discretion, more discipline over the totality of uh of of your you know the several levels of your being. That is you know this kind of

1:27:04 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Dangers of advanced Elus-Cohen practices

process of reintegration. Um if you I mean when I'll put it this way, right? I don't think it's as cut and dry. I'm not sitting here as like, you know, uh, you know, um, Bobby Buché's mom from The Water Boy, like, you know, food balls for the devil. I I don't mean it like that. I don't mean it like that. But just as a maybe like a colloquialism, like something that's just sage wisdom, right? Like as as something poetic. When the devil talks to you, he speaks in your voice. Okay? If you're not,

1:27:43 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Dangers of advanced Elus-Cohen practices

if you don't have the selfawareness to know when when it's not you, what do you think's going to happen? You know, what do you there? We are at such a severe disadvantage to anything on the other side of the veil. We can't see it. We don't know that what the parts of it that we can. Let's say you're a clairvoyant. I can see it. Well, how do you know that it's presenting its true form to you? You know what I'm saying? Like you you can't be all too ready to think I'm

1:28:14 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Dangers of advanced Elus-Cohen practices

special. Pat myself on the [ __ ] back. It's like, yeah, okay, I can see [ __ ] too. That doesn't mean that it's that it's going to do what it says it's going to do. You know, there that's why there are protocols. That's why there are there's there's there's, you know, the the several several protocols within an operation, which is the calling forth, the binding, right? Steven Skinner's big on that. Don't ask the spirit to do anything until you have bound it. You

1:28:40 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Dangers of advanced Elus-Cohen practices

have to bind it. That's a protocol. That's that's a that's something I have to follow. Um so if you don't have all these different trainings by way of initiation, how are you going to do any? It's going to it's going to overtake you. You will you will drown in the darkness because you're not only having to deal with the the darkened sphere of the material that is just happening as happening as a consequence of the times in which we live. But now you're calling forth.

1:29:14 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Dangers of advanced Elus-Cohen practices

You're essentially putting a bullseye on your chest for all the the the the unseen things that are causing this [ __ ] to to happen, you know? um or at least instigating it and and uh exacerbating it, amplifying it. At the end of the day, the locus of control is within ourselves. But we have to be trained to become aware of that. And that involves being able to sense the multiple aspects of your constituent being. It's not just Sky sitting in the [ __ ] chair. There are levels of being that are all working

1:29:49 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Dangers of advanced Elus-Cohen practices

simultaneously of which your petty ego and I don't mean you, you know, it's not an insult, but our petty egos are completely unaware from moment to moment. You know what I'm saying? So, it's like, how are you going to jump into goetic the calling forth like, you know, you want the exconjuration of the serpent as a [ __ ] neophite? You just bought a pair of red socks. You have no idea what like that's how you start. Crazy. You know, it's crazy. It's It's a [ __ ] death sentence.

1:30:17 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Dangers of advanced Elus-Cohen practices

>> I agree 100%. And I think it's it's kind of along these lines like it's funny cuz I hear people every now and then make these comments about certain orders and their secrecy and this protective these protective layers of I mean, you know, they they might be like, well, this information should be available for everybody or everybody should have access to it or blah blah blah. And I'm like, I think these layers are obviously built into these systems for a reason because of the exact thing that you're

1:30:48 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Why secrecy can be protective

speaking to in terms of moving into the inner orders and whatnot and being able to prepare yourself. And I see it more as a some of these orders with as as somewhat of a privilege to be uh a part of in terms of that you're being educated in a coherent manner in in order to uh go about engaging some of these things in a sophisticated manner versus just [ __ ] hoping for the best and doing some sloppy uh entering into these worlds in some kind of sloppy manner where you can get yourself um into some bad situations. So

1:31:33 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Why secrecy can be protective

I always I don't always but I I think that's an important thing to draw attention and and touch on for people that the reason that a lot of I think I don't know I'm I'm speculating and assuming that a a big reason why a lot of these orders have these layers of secrecy quote unquote within them is not because they're hoarding information that they don't want to get out there but it's more so in regard to a protective mechanism. Um I don't know maybe you can give your thoughts or your

1:32:09 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Why secrecy can be protective

take on that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Everybody wants to everything everybody wants to go through everything half [ __ ] cocked. That's the big issue because it's nobody's buying in to the reality behind this stuff. It's all this very It's this this silent conspiracy of cosplay where I This is what I'm interested in. Okay. Well, you could be interested in in in driving a [ __ ] bulldozer and you can go on the internet and you can learn all about that. But no [ __ ] in their right mind is going to give you

1:32:46 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Why secrecy can be protective

the keys and let you go and do that with little to no training. selfucate >> because you think because you see because somebody else who's studied for [ __ ] 10 years and has had that job and gone through the certifications and have and has dealt with the the and has had to improvise through the problems and the challenges that have been uh foisted in front of them just by the operation. They might make it look easy. Yes. But you have to earn [ __ ] in this life. Okay? That is a natural law. You

1:33:18 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Why secrecy can be protective

have to earn things. So, you know, that's why the yellow cone is graded the way it is. It's, you know, it's not it's not like these other magical orders. I like to com like the Golden Dawn's great. You get out of your ritual space. You feel like a spiritual scientist. The Elo Cohen is more like, you know, you feel like you're at war and you're behind enemy lines alone sometimes. you know, it's it's not it's not the same this happy golucky uh you know, let's let's see if I can

1:33:48 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Why secrecy can be protective

make uh you know, uh a zazil manifest and uh so I can you know, afford a new car or gas this week. It's not it's it's just not that. You're you're intentionally engaging with dark things and you know they are way [ __ ] better at this stuff than you are. So, um, the thing is people want to psychologize this stuff. Well, it's just the dark stuff in me. Oh, yeah, it is. But it's also the dark stuff out there because they're connected and there is an objective existence to these things. And if you

1:34:24 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Why secrecy can be protective

haven't experienced that, then I'm sorry. And you either need to work more diligently so that you can perceive these things and open your mind. Therefore, granting yourself that window of opportunity, perceptive opportunity to experience that stuff or like [ __ ] or get off the pot. Believe or don't. But you, you know, don't come into this [ __ ] trying to test it out and become a believer, you know, do something else. There are plenty of other routes to go, you know. um you you you will eventually

1:34:55 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Why secrecy can be protective

find if you do this long enough, right? This is why this is what we all say who have been doing this for many years very seriously. It is there is a dangerous component especially to [ __ ] like El Cohen. You want to go dick around with the Lima, go ahead. But particularly with things like the Luc Cohen and Goedic magic, there is a real risk. Um and that's why there are protocols. But you if you look at the Abraham melon, right? That's that's apparently the quint quintessential, you know, you talk about

1:35:32 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Why secrecy can be protective

Solomon, right? Solomonic magic. He was king of Israel. He was the wisest man in all the land. Okay. Are you the wisest man in all the land? Are you the king of Are you even the king of yourself? Can you do these things? Go ahead. you know, like but don't say that we didn't warn you. It's not this this game playing, you know, thing where we all kind of have talked ourselves into this uh, you know, um, egregoric uh, delusion. This [ __ ] is real. You will see it if you if you have eyes to

1:36:10 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Why secrecy can be protective

see it. Otherwise, it will destroy you and you just won't be able to tell what's going on. Your life will spiral out of control. Now whether that takes 10 days or 10 years, who knows? >> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I'm I'm like for me it's like why would you even want to like I would have no interest in trying to go fly an airplane with no training or proper preparation. You know, I I would want to go to a pilot who has been flying for years. You know, I want I want an adept at his or her craft that

1:36:44 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Why secrecy can be protective

can can have the experience behind them and success with whatever it is they're doing, whether it's just some mundane day-to-day craft or operating a machinery or a vehicle or whatever it is. And I think that people just totally missed that point. So, I just think that's very important that we touched on that. Um, are there any are there other things that you would like to touch on in regards to that Elhu Cohen before we close this out? >> Yeah, I think the one connection is that

1:37:18 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Saint-Martin’s inner path and closing reflections

I want to make that I wanted to make is that uh um so at a certain point Louis Claude de San Martan says can't we just can't we do an interior rectification? Do we need all this accutramon? Do we need to be dealing with dark spirits? Do we need the swords? Do we need this the circles and the floorcloths and the candles on the floor? You know, does that need to happen? And he decides he's not going to partake in in this even though he's been trained and it's the basis of his philosophy. He's learned a

1:37:55 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Saint-Martin’s inner path and closing reflections

tremendous about amount about himself, about the the way that the world works, magical operations. He goes he essentially pulls out of the Cohen and um you know starts writing as the unknown philosopher and his way is the way of the heart. It's more devotional. It's more mystic mystical um and and and focuses less on all the exterior issues and goes really really hard with the interior. And I think that's also why they're really really good counterparts, right? You have to it's, you know,

1:38:35 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Saint-Martin’s inner path and closing reflections

it's not visit the exterior of the heavens, it's visit the interior of the earth and you there rectifying you will find the hidden stone which is true medicine. Right? And and that that is the way the way of the heart is the way of the Christ. And there's really there's very little danger there. and and there are there's just more than one way to skin the cat and and do good in the world. And I think personally my own preference is just that my own preference is that really by

1:39:10 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Saint-Martin’s inner path and closing reflections

by rectifying your sphere of sensation, your microcosm, you will change the world, you know, but that is going to require that you have the same courage that the grimoire magician, the same skill, um the same discipline, the same dedication, um and and willingness to be guided by others who know um and follow their protocols. You have to possess all the same skills. It's just whether or not it's just the path in or the path out, you know, and and the path inward is um in many ways the more severe one.

1:39:51 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Saint-Martin’s inner path and closing reflections

Amen. I hope this was very informative and perhaps sobering for people. It definitely was a big one for me. And so with that, uh, we will conclude another episode of the Atherica podcast. This was an important one for sure. Um, if anybody wants to find more on the Etherica podcast, please check out the Patreon at patreon.com/etherica. And for myself, check out philosophicalminds podcast. And how about for you, Ike? YouTube.com/arcanum. A r cvm. And then uh usually in the about section of any video, whether it's a podcast or

1:40:33 · Sky Mathis & Ike Baker · Saint-Martin’s inner path and closing reflections

one of the presentation style lectures that I put together on astrology, tarot, ritual, all that jazz, uh you will be able to find an email, my Instagram, and that stuff. But go check out the videos and um keep enjoying the Etherica podcast with us. This is a lot of fun. >> Absolutely. All right. Until next time.