0:00 · Unknown · Natura Naturata vs. Natura Naturans explained

Interesting. [music] [music] Okay. So, you mentioned a couple terms uh like naturalis and like some other things like that. What are these and what do those mean? So Nata Naturata and Nata Natans are essentially I want to say they're more renaissance philosophical terms. They correspond to the idea of the animi which itself goes back to Plato's time >> like the soul of the world >> wherein right he calls it the siki cosmu the the soul of the cosmos. So not just the soul of the world, the soul of everything

0:50 · Unknown · Natura Naturata vs. Natura Naturans explained

[music] that exists physically and essentially it's an insold being. There is as I'm saying intelligence to it. Um it's not just dried dead materialism that just so happened to look like a bird, you know, out of nowhere. So [music] which is insane. That's an insane thought that they got us to swallow that absolute tripe. Um but um but you know proved my point again you can learn yourself [expletive] stupid and um but so natur essentially nature which is born and nature which gives birth. So essentially

1:37 · Unknown · Natura Naturata vs. Natura Naturans explained

those are two ideas that were kind of fleshed teased out of the animmundi. This idea that like yes there is a a physical aspect of nature that is born and we can watch it grow and it kind of you know some of them have this underlying fractal geometry and and and some of them um you know completely change course like a caterpillar turning into a butterfly. that seems completely absurd and beautiful and terrifying and awesome at the same time. Um, that's nature which is born, but there's something underneath it that is the

2:14 · Unknown · Anima Mundi and nature as a living intelligence

first cause that, [music] you know, I guess we would look at it as the astral blueprint or the etheric DNA of what that thing is going to be, the [music] ultimate game plan of potentials and limitations of what this thing can be. and and then literally wills it into be into being. The Egyptians would have called this like the the [music] um the duad the the womb of N. You know this this Rozi Christians say nikwaquam vakum nowhere a void and it's the truth. [music] You know, the Egyptians would

2:50 · Unknown · Anima Mundi and nature as a living intelligence

look up into the night sky and they would see endless darkness punctuated by these beautiful distant lights and in their, you know, to their minds there that was the within that is the womb of nu the the um the duad. uh uh everything that's that can come into being comes out of there and and um this kind of empty pleum of the ether from which all forms essentially have their underlying ground and are sent forth. So, so that's that's kind of the difference between nata natura and nata natans essentially

3:30 · Unknown · Reincarnation and remembering past lives

nature which is born and nature which gives birth. So, when you were talking a few minutes ago, it kind of made me think of this question that I wanted to ask you cuz something that you've mentioned before is this idea of maybe it's a platonic thing of drinking of the waters of leth or forgetfulness that you've mentioned a few times in terms of >> cuz you're saying like either maybe I don't remember, we don't remember and things along these lines uh past lives or past experiences or where we came

4:05 · Unknown · Reincarnation and remembering past lives

from or things like this. Uh I wonder do you believe that some souls can come into this world remembering um their past lives? U cuz you know I've I have heard and I've heard people claim that some may be authentic maybe others [expletive] I don't know. Um but what are your thoughts on that? I remember the first time having hearing about the idea of past lives reincarnation. I had to have been like six or seven years old. I was in I was definitely an early grade school because I moved around a lot. So I remember

4:41 · Unknown · Childhood vision and early past-life experience

exactly the school I was in. I was only in the school for like 2 years. Um, and uh, I remember hearing the concept of reincarnation and for some reason I knew to close my eyes and it might have been one of the first times I ever went into a meditative state. And [music] what flashed in a vision before my eyes was a body like from [music] my point of view looking down at a crouched body at what looked like I guess like prairie kind of like patchy grass, patchy dirt and a pair of hands just like turned

5:18 · Unknown · Childhood vision and early past-life experience

over like this and I'm looking at them and uh and it was jarring because I was like six or seven years old and I looked down and my hands were black. I was not I did not have this color skin. Yeah. And I just like shook my head and I was like what was that you know? So that that happened very early for me and then [music] as part of the curriculum of of you know the main uh initiatic order of which I am a part. Uh there are a series of and this is way down the line you know you don't jump in with this but there are uh

5:55 · Unknown · Controlled past life regression practices

after all your your kind of mental meditative and spiritual training you undergo a series of experiments which are essentially controlled past life regression experiences that you do yourself. Nobody's leading you and you only go where you want to go because I know people that have done past life regression experiences and have sort of spontaneously relive the very traumatic death. And so within this particular initiatic order [music] it's extremely controlled as everything else is specifically for that reason. We don't

6:28 · Unknown · Controlled past life regression practices

want to traumatize you. We want you to be able to control this. And I do believe in that absolutely and I think that science is proving that more and more every day. looking at these kids who can say this is where I used to live and then you know say who lived in that house and this is how I died and this is where my body was and you know these prodigies that come in knowing how to play a piano I mean as a musician that went to music school and had to endure you know hours of keyboard lab it's like

6:59 · Unknown · Controlled past life regression practices

for a six-year-old to be able to play you know uh uh you know the ode to joy it's just Like that don't make sense. That's in a cartoon. If you know if you don't believe in [expletive] reincarnation like it's like that's you know >> [music] >> um it's neuroplasticity is not [music] you know even that tenant of of neuroscience is challenged by that particular phenomenon. So uh the the you know the uh the the odds are just um they don't it doesn't make sense. the

7:36 · Unknown · Limits and value of past-life memories

probability, the statistics of the situation. But um I do believe in uh that people come into this world and I have had uh you know a few valuable past life experiences. Um I I have had some that are completely invaluable um at this point. That's another thing that people should be aware of on the spiritual path. Um, you will encounter visions. You will encounter beings. Perhaps you will you will experience things and you may go 10, 15 years without being able to explain them or point to a single, you know,

8:23 · Unknown · Limits and value of past-life memories

any kind of even minute consequence they might have. You'll just be scratching your head, hm, wonder what that was for like the rest of your life probably. And you have to deal with that. But um I have had valuable past life uh experiences. I don't know how much value you can extract by going backwards. Um I think that you rather than going backwards and toggling on this kind of axis, right? Because not a lot of people sure tons of people have past life experiences, but what about what about

8:55 · Unknown · Limits and value of past-life memories

the in between state? How come we don't hear more about that? you know, do you remember what happened in between these lines? Like, can we talk a little bit? That's >> that's more of consequence to me. Yeah. Right. Because I can't do anything about, you know, the English fishmonger I was in the 1800s or something like that, you know, who broke his toe uh stumbling drunk that it has no consequence. Um, you know, I'm still, regardless of how aware I am, I'm still working out that karma. and having those

9:24 · Unknown · Anamnesis and remembering the greater whole

little kind of weird experiences, it doesn't mean I'm going to be able to make heads or tails of it or do anything productive with it. So, I think rather than toggling on that axis of linear time, we need to be able to develop that anomnesis, that not forgetting, right? That remembering and yes, all of this is platonic. um uh to be able to see the whole picture, the big picture, not just this life, but the in between and multiple lives and and just the the the the structure of the cosmos. And I do

9:58 · Unknown · Anamnesis and remembering the greater whole

think that in part that that is how these adepts of ages past you know the you know the sides and and and the you know the philosophers and and the sages who wrote the vadas right I mean you read those things and it's like unbelievable the vadas are incredible and so how do you know all this stuff and I think those are people who have attained a species of anom amnesis that blows past the whole past life experience thing. They're now like they that is exactly what I'm talking about when I say broaden the perspective. You

10:40 · Unknown · Expanded awareness beyond individual lifetimes

don't even know most people aren't even aware of how how big the picture gets. >> Yeah. Yeah. I remember I have interviewed this woman uh Susan Manwitch and she had a very compelling uh insights into her I mean she essentially claims to have remembered even incarnating at the moment of her conception and kind of being present at that time. So I always found that very interesting and it she seems genuine and authentic >> in the way that she spoke about it. Um, but yeah, I do wonder. I think that's a

11:18 · Unknown · Expanded awareness beyond individual lifetimes

good point that you bring up in terms of that in between state because that is much more of an interesting and lesser talked about situation that I I am interested in and curious about in terms of like being prior to incarnation and where one's consciousness resides at that time and place and or space. And so I wonder, have you come across any interesting uh information on that with any individuals or any individuals you're aware of or things along those lines? Um, I've I I I have read a bunch of

12:00 · Unknown · Near-death experiences and subjective recall

stuff uh like um Voyages Out of the Body, um the holographic universe, that kind of late 80s, early 90s genre of paranormal meets quantum meets newagy type of stuff. and it's a fun read and it does it does give you some stuff to think about, but um at the end of the day it's just reading. So, uh other than that, I mean, I could go down a list of people that I've known in my life that have had uh near-death experiences. Um my father's actually one of them. Uh [clears throat] but you know the interesting thing

12:54 · Unknown · Near-death experiences and subjective recall

in lie of this information right I would recommend because you can you can listen to some people's recollection of what happens and some of it agrees and some of it doesn't with somebody else and some of it you know um is again maybe half remembered or filtered through the person's ruach. They're microcosm, you know, they're they're it has to go through this filter of the mundane personality now that they're back in a body and and working wherever the hell they're working and dealing

13:24 · Unknown · Plato’s Myth of Er and the afterlife journey

with their earth earthbound issues and stuff like that, there's no guarantee it's going to come through completely clearly. Um, but with all that stuff aside and all those differences, I would recommend everyone go and either buy or, [music] you know, rent from the library uh or download a PDF of Plato's Republic. And I'm not going to suggest that you read the [music] whole thing. I am going to suggest that, but I'm not going to insist that you do. I I'm going to recommend that you turn to book 10 of

14:01 · Unknown · Plato’s Myth of Er and the afterlife journey

The Republic and go to the last few final pages. Um it's just a couple of pages and it'll say there'll be um uh uh probably a chapter heading that says the myth of or something to that effect. And essentially it's Plato by way of his chief protagonist Socrates, right? his his teacher who all of his dialogues like Plato says nothing if he says if he doesn't say it through Socrates um in these dialogues uh but Socrates kind of elaborates this tale of uh an ancient soldier his name is and he has uh what

14:40 · Unknown · Plato’s Myth of Er and the afterlife journey

is [music] an ancient out-of body experience it's an ancient account of an out-of body experience and he talks about everything he talks about um you know dying and he talks about leaving the the spheres of causality the material universe. He goes to a place called the Agd Doad, the eighth sphere, you know, beyond the seven planetary bodies. Um the the the rungs of the latter of creation, if you want to look at it that way. And he's now beyond causality in this in this uh um I hate this word, liinal space. And uh he's

15:16 · Unknown · Souls, judgment, and karmic consequences

there now and he um the first thing that happens is that he sees all of I guess now you don't even have to read it cuz I'm going to go through the whole thing for you. But uh he meets all these souls that he's known in in previous lives and they all meet each other and they meet and they embrace and they talk and then there are some souls that are not present and there are some souls that are trying to get where they are but they can't because of the decisions they've made in

15:40 · Unknown · Souls, judgment, and karmic consequences

their lives. >> [music] >> um and they are dragged down to a realm of punishment. So [clears throat] then they go further, they travel on and they witness what is essentially the unfathomably huge spindle, which is Plato's analogy for um the karmic mechanism of [music] creation. Uh the the the whirlpool of generation. It's it's the the um it's cloth spindle the the spindle of necessity of anag in Greek meant more like um binding you know uh necessity isn't something

16:23 · Unknown · The spindle of necessity and reincarnation cycle

that you really are going to get the point of of the usage of the word of that that goddess they're saying a nag because you are bound this is karma you know this is the karmic instrument of the universe That's his analogy for it. And I'll come back to the use of analogies because that's the that's the whole point I'm trying to make here, but I'll get to the end. He's then bound with a tutillary or guiding spirit, the guide of good counsel [music] called the diamond, right? And that right, as I've

16:54 · Unknown · The spindle of necessity and reincarnation cycle

kind of explained in [music] in on the episodes in my channel, [clears throat] the root of that word means something kind of like a a division suggesting itself to be an intermediary. like okay you can't talk to the absolute right because the absolute the one in the beyond it's it's completely impersonal but your diamond can communicate with those higher forces with the higher gods and so then that's your intermediary uh and so you're they're bound with that that sort of spiritual entity and uh and

17:27 · Unknown · Choosing lives and drinking from Lethe

then bound to [music] the the the spindle of incarnation metham psychosis reincarn arnation. That's the Greek word for it. And um and then the last thing that happens before they get sent back for rebirth is they they choose their lives. They they pick which lives they want to live and they choose their diamonds too according to Plato. And then they drink the waters of the river Leth and Leth means forgetfulness. [music] Um and then they they return. [music] they return. And so you have this idea and

18:06 · Unknown · Egyptian weighing of the heart ceremony

then you look at something like the weighing of the heart ceremony in ancient Egypt, right? The dead is now considered the deceased in the underworld in the the the dooad. They're brought to the the halls of uh of M the goddess of truth whose symbol was a feather. And the dead the deceased is now called an Osiris. And so he has to under before the weighing of the heart ceremony where they weigh his part against the feather of truth on these gigantic scales, he has to go around and make an a negative confession, an

18:43 · Unknown · Egyptian weighing of the heart ceremony

apohatic confession, which is basically saying to 42 different judges or assessors, I did not do this. I did not do that. I did not do this thing. Um, and then be weighed against the feather of truth. But the thing is the feather of truth doesn't mean like truth as in have you told the truth. It means more like dharma or dao. This is the way things are. This is what somebody like Mark Pacio would call natural law. That's what that feather stands for. This is what the created is. It is this

19:17 · Unknown · Egyptian weighing of the heart ceremony

feather. It is this dynamic equilibrium. It is this natural law. Your heart will tell us and it will tell you did you live in accordance with it and and if not you were devoured by uh you know uh socatanis whatever uh god form with a crocodile mouth and and a big hippopotamus belly to signify right the the the the soul in the beyond has been so conditioned by materiality that it has retained voracious appetites and so it has to go down. It basically chooses reincarnation. That's what that So you look at these

20:03 · Unknown · Myth as symbolic truth beyond literal meaning

things and you look at these myths, right? And then you look at what Plato and Yamus and Socrates all these they all say the same thing you know uh we have to create mythic symbols. We have to use mythic symbols to describe this stuff because it transcends words. Um, but there is a general formula. There are things that relate to each other. There are similarities. There are things that are onetoone correspondences nearly identical. And these are things that were passed down through the priest class and through the bard class and

20:45 · Unknown · Myth as symbolic truth beyond literal meaning

have been preserved now some for for 3,000 years. Um, a lot of this stuff, you know, the Egyptian stuff much longer. Um, and those things, those symbolic images, those mythic formulas of what happens in the beyond, I think that's the best, that's the surefire way to have any inkling of what happens in that in between space. I don't think that a person is going to be able to tell you what they saw and you be convinced of it. And Socrates says it when, you know, some people are like, "What are you

21:21 · Unknown · Myth as symbolic truth beyond literal meaning

talking about, man? This shit's crazy. What do you what do you like you know and Socrates kind of like I forget the dialogue might be the parmenities or the fedrris or the phto one of those but he basically says the myth would save us if we were convinced of it >> you know like if you just believe this you would it would save us you know but you can't understand that what we're talking about [music] is this you know juiposition of of myth of fable of story that is not factually true but

21:57 · Unknown · Comparing traditions: Greek, Egyptian, Tibetan

spiritually true, archetypally true. It it it it it contains a greater truth. Yes. Okay. And then so in terms of correspondences and symbolic images or mythic formulas, there's also there's the the Tibetan book of the dead or the Egyptian book of the dead, which I'm not sure if that encompasses the wing of the heart ceremony that you're speaking about. I'm not sure. >> Yeah. the Egyptian one. >> Do these uh texts do they uh cover like similar correspondences or information

22:33 · Unknown · Comparing traditions: Greek, Egyptian, Tibetan

that kind of align with um the [clears throat] particular myth of that you're talking about in Plato? Or do they talk about different things along different lines or have you read them? And if so, I'm curious uh maybe what what are some things worthy of mention in regards to those texts? I haven't read uh the I've read parts of the the Tibetan Book of the Dead and I believe so that's more of a manual and and it did exist also in Egypt. Um one of the the apparently the mistakes that

23:07 · Unknown · The Book of the Dead and funerary traditions

Westerners make and I I was informed of this by an Egyptologist. I'm not coming to this conclusion myself cuz I was unaware of it is that theerary texts of ancient Egypt are all one text. the book of the gates, the book of the hours, the book of coming forth by day, which is what we call the book of the dead. But it's all one bigerary tradition. It's just that like there wasn't enough space on the sarcophagus or the, you know, this wall or this tomb to write all of it. So, you know, this pharaoh, this leader chose

23:41 · Unknown · The Book of the Dead and funerary traditions

this. It's kind of like if I wanted if I wanted uh on my my tombstone if I wanted to put the entire Bible well you can't you you have to you have to pick a couple of lines you know so um so it's all one tradition and to that effect uh the the Egyptian stuff to me and my exuges Jesus and my exploration both spiritual and and mundane in terms of you know academic rigor The Greek was the Egyptians lived mythically. That's just that's why people say oh like well there was no difference between science

24:21 · Unknown · Mythic vs. rational consciousness (Egypt vs. Greece)

and religion. Yeah because they had a mythic consciousness. [music] We it's would be very hard for us to understand the way that they view the world. The Greeks on the other hand we can kind of kind of meet them halfway really you know with guys like uh Aristotle and and uh and Pfury these more these technicians these um you know logicians uh you know meaning people who who base uh you know they have um a strong emphasis on logic and and and rational discursive methods and things like that. Uh again leaning more towards

24:57 · Unknown · Mythic vs. rational consciousness (Egypt vs. Greece)

this Carteesianism, this nominalism. It can either be this or that. It's not both of those things which is an error. It's a perceptive error. Um we're now that that error happens when we when we have when we take the consciousness and we and we we focus it here instead of making it broad. So that's essentially the Egyptians had a massive broad consciousness. Do I mean the farmer? I mean maybe not, you know, he probably was there may perhaps some superstition undoubtedly, but um overall they lived

25:34 · Unknown · Mythic vs. rational consciousness (Egypt vs. Greece)

mythically. The Greeks on the other hand condensed this stuff down into what was a protoscientific language really. Um even scientific verbiage and biology and things like it's all based in Greek and [music] Latin today. Uh so you know really um the roots of the scientific tradition are at least as we understand it are in Greek. So essentially you have these myths that the ancient Egyptians had. They crossed over, cross-pollinated with the different cultures, the Thrians, the Egyptians, uh uh I mean the

26:05 · Unknown · Cultural transmission of esoteric knowledge

uh the Greeks. And now the Greeks are using this different perceptive lens that they've developed you know that that kind of more scientific that more philosophical traditionally or classically philosophical uh perceptive system to condense these things right and and sort of elaborate them or express them in in what was then a new iteration that the Greek mind could really understand could really get behind. And you see this typically happening in guys like Pythagoras and guys like Plato who went

26:42 · Unknown · Cultural transmission of esoteric knowledge

to Egypt to be initiated to be taught by the priest class there. They come back and they start writing they start mythologizing they start you know um trying to make a point trying to communicate this stuff to the people that's around that are around them. Um, as far as the Tibetan Book of the Dead, I believe that has to do, and I don't want to butcher this. I apologize if if this is like your thing, anybody that's listening, but um, I I read it really early in my 20s in bits and pieces

27:10 · Unknown · Bardo, purgatory, and afterlife parallels

because that's kind of all I had the wherewithal to do when I was in my early 20s. Um, and, uh, I believe that's more of a manual of, uh, sort of getting the dead to the other side. Um I believe it has to deal with the uh the Bardau which is sort of this purgatory state. Um but again we see that also in you know uh some forms of Christian theology. Um you know uh uh we see that in in I believe Milton and and also in uh in in Dante you know the divine comment uh the divine comedy. this idea of purgatory. So all these,

27:53 · Unknown · Bardo, purgatory, and afterlife parallels

you know, nothing is it's like you'd be very hardressed to to find something that's like totally out of line. Um maybe in some kind of like super symbolic iterations of Buddhism or like Hinduism, you would find something that that is like, oh my god, where did they come up with that? You know, like it's one of those turtles all the way down scenarios. Um, but other than that, I think I think you know the only worldview concerning after death experience that is jarring to the archetypal human experience is

28:34 · Unknown · Atheism and the denial of afterlife

[music] is atheism and and a belief in no afterlife. I think that's the only um morbid conception of death and uh and what happens after. >> Yeah. Um, okay. So, back to freedom. I wonder about the relationship to self- sovereignty and freedom. Um, and self- sovereignty, I guess. Yeah. Like, what would you describe? What does that mean to you? Well, it doesn't really matter what it means to me. And that's what makes it natural law. [laughter] But um I I say that I'm being facitious to make a

29:15 · Unknown · Defining self-sovereignty and natural law

point. Uh for anybody that's listening, this is not my truth. Okay? You hear that a lot. Well, it's your truth. What the [expletive] does that mean? That doesn't mean anything. That's gobbledegook. That's word salad. >> I have sort of a response to that, but I'll wait for you to finish. >> Okay. Um and you know, you know the sense I mean it in. >> Yeah. I I mean it in this kind of like spirituality as paliotative we're bypassing having to think about things

29:44 · Unknown · Defining self-sovereignty and natural law

you know um that's the sense I mean it in right everybody has a subjective component to their experience but the thing is how do you arbitrate what do you this this actually is something that Plato touches on in in first uh they say aliades that's not how you pronounce it in [music] Greek I think it's uh Al alchades is is the the Greek uh pronunciation. But in that dialogue uh Plato [music] or a Platonic student who is very worthy wrote about this idea that like you we we cannot continually be so imprecise

30:31 · Unknown · Defining self-sovereignty and natural law

with our meanings. At a certain point, we have to be more completely concrete and objective. If we're to have if we are to have a conversation of any consequence or any productivity, we must first endeavor a definition of terms. So that when I say a word, you're thinking of the idea that's attached to that word that's also in my head. And when we say truth, we need to talk, we need, okay, what are we talking about? Capital T truth. are we talking about? You know, what kind of truth are we talking about?

31:03 · Unknown · Objective truth vs. subjective perception

And the thing is, um, at the levels we're talking about right now, [music] it's important to emphasize that this does not change based [music] on what you think, who you are, what you believe, how you feel. When we're talking about natural law, it is that which is these are governing principles. So, in other words, like if you and I are in Miami and we're talking about gravity, we're talking about a law that is infallible from the position that we're that that we both are this location. We know it's

31:45 · Unknown · Objective truth vs. subjective perception

going to be this way. Okay, we're good to go. I'm not talking about gravity here. You're not talking about on the moon where it's [music] different. We're talking about the same thing. And this is an immutable law. We're not going to get away from this. This is gravity we're talking about here. Well, there are behavioral laws, laws of cosmic cause and effect, and those are just as immutable as physical laws. That's what masonry teaches through analogy and allegory and

32:11 · Unknown · Natural law as behavioral cause and effect

symbolism. That look, you know, we prove the angle. We proved the stability with the carpenter square, but we're also proving the fact that if you act right, you will build a life that stands the test of time. Um, and that's not just this kind of hopefulness, this this uh um uh you know uh overly positive attitude that is that is cause and effect, natural law, you know, behavioral consequence. But uh you know, nobody's saying you're not going to suffer. But you know, you you know that you're building on a on a

32:49 · Unknown · Natural law as behavioral cause and effect

on a good foundation when you act in these ways. [music] And it's because the universe shows us that when we don't act that way, it the door hits you in the ass either now or next Wednesday. But it always hits you in the ass one way or another. Um so um [clears throat] so I mean that right there in a nutshell is self- sovereignty. But Plato really really developed it. I'm not like, you know, and it's it's weird because I'm always going back to him and it feels like I'm like Plato's

33:20 · Unknown · Plato’s ethics and the “highest good”

super fan. There's a lot of [expletive] that he said that I I kind of don't agree with or, you know, I think was was some of it was like basically a lot of his dialogues were kind of predicated on these spirious terms, but the whole thing is that he wasn't arguing from a logical basis. [music] These were mystical documents. He was trying to get to the [expletive] point. Didn't matter if this didn't make sense to you now, 2500 years later. [music] Um, but you have to go back to him because

33:49 · Unknown · Plato’s ethics and the “highest good”

it happened before everything. It was before Christianity, you know, it it like so people point to like, oh no, that's Christian moralizing. Yeah, but but what about Plato? You know, this was hundreds of years before Christ, you know, and he was saying the same thing. So what do we do about that problem? You know, so that's why I always go back to Plato. He's the oldest and most intact version that we have of this stuff. And uh he he essentially at least according to our historic record he creates the first

34:24 · Unknown · Plato’s ethics and the “highest good”

philosophy of ethics um in the west and and you know arite and udeimmonia you know um excellence and well-being and that's what it's all about [music] and the pyia the education of the soul right not just the education of the man but the education of the soul consists in contemplating and coming to understand what he called the capital G good. The capital G good was the closest conception he could come to to like a substantive ground from which all of creation manifested. Um, and so that's

35:04 · Unknown · Order, beauty, and distance from the divine

not good in terms of like, oh, he pets cats and kisses babies, but more like athon meaning beneficial, right? Like we say, you know, it's good not only good, it's good for you, you know, that's it's more like a beneficial kind of connotation. But since the world is ordered and since there is beauty and harmony and proportion, since there is that stuff, we can safely assume that the ground from which reality comes forth is ultimately ordered, beautiful, harmonious to one degree or another. And that the

35:45 · Unknown · Order, beauty, and distance from the divine

shortcomings of all these things, the death, the decay, the dissolution, are products of materiality, not necessarily of the divine, but of our our sort of um distal proximity to that goodness. We're in like in the earthly domain. we are far away from the gardens of the happy, you know, like we're we're just far away from the absolute um in terms of, you know, dense emanation. So the all the bad stuff is a product of us being far away from the good, but the good is still here because we came out

36:22 · Unknown · Order, beauty, and distance from the divine

of it. It's just very convoluted and it's subject to decay. And we perceive decay as an evil, as bad, right? We don't think death is good from our perception here on Earth. Um I mean in some cases I guess but so [sighs] he basically says if we contemplate that capital G good that ground of being that generated order you know uh harmony beauty if if health if we contemplate that we will understand its virtues. We will be able to see those things, those patterns [music] peeking out to us, you know,

37:00 · Unknown · Recognizing and embodying virtue

sort of blinking, alerting us to their presence underlying in the world. And then we will know because before we didn't know, we acted from a place of ignorance. But now that we know, you know, it's it's absolute madness. It's nearly impossible to unknow something once you know it, unsee something once you see it. And once you begin to see and know the good, it's going to inform your behavior. And that's going to lead to [music] um you know uh virtue or excellence, you will

37:33 · Unknown · Recognizing and embodying virtue

know is you remove all the gray area. I know what to do in this situation. I'm not going to sit here and bite my nails and say, "Well, this would be really good for me and this is really inconvenient." No, you know what the answer is? Do it. And you do it. I mean, that's the basis of Stoicism came out of this exactly this philosophy of Platonism. this philosophy is of ethics is is was the ground of stoicism. Um they just said they were agnostic about all the other stuff. I don't really care

38:02 · Unknown · Recognizing and embodying virtue

about if there are gods, if there are great, if there aren't, [music] whatever, I'll be dead. But um essentially you know it's in acting in accordance with the natural principles around us which [music] kind of hint at uh the principles which are inherent to the good that this came from uh or at least the good that is in it even if there is bad. So um that's that's essentially what that is self- sovereignty walking that line walking excellence walking that pattern of the good coming to educate your soul

38:42 · Unknown · Self-sovereignty through alignment with the good

in terms of like what is the good what does the good prefer what does it generate [music] um and learning to generate those things yourself no matter how you feel just do it and uh ordering ing your life based on that principle. Um, that is essentially self- sovereignty and it's that abounds in in in hermitism and hermeticism, right? Because the the the hermitist is always trying to quote read the book of nature. you know, we're always we're always trying to look at nature as our guide, as our teacher

39:21 · Unknown · Initiation and accelerating personal transformation

um for how we should live, what is [music] good. And the the final piece here is that for me, initiation in a true hermetic ultimately theoric current is what catalyzed all these realizations and changes for me. And I think for it's that is the way that other people I think eventually are going to have to go um because it expedites karma. If we want to do this [expletive] quick, you get on the path of initiation. But you don't do it, you know, you don't just jump on like very light-hearted or, you know, without

39:55 · Unknown · Initiation and accelerating personal transformation

thinking about it deeply and making sure that it's your life path. But to me, I see it happening more and more and more and there's all these different species of initiations happening outside of orders and just in the public sphere. But in [music] the initiation of the hermetic order of the golden dawn, just on a final note, you undergo the alchemical outer order which is a salv coagula. You are oified, taken apart. You examine the constituent elements of your psyche, put them back together

40:26 · Unknown · Alchemical process of inner transformation

under the opaces of spirit [music] and you then you undergo these these spiritual and visualization exercises which are tantamount to energy work that quote unquote rectify your sphere of sensation which make the little microcosm, the little universe in your little aura, [music] you who you are more like the macrocosm out there, more like you, you become ordered in accordance to natural patterns. >> Yeah. And on just bouncing back on that note of the the truth, my truth thing, just to address it, I I do I agree with

41:07 · Unknown · “Your truth” vs. objective truth clarified

you and I understand where you're coming from um and what you mean by that, but I know that there's probably people listening uh that maybe will just have their little thoughts. And so [music] I kind of I can get where maybe people I can see some people saying like if we're two individuals experiencing uh and describing our own particular perceptions of a particular truth from our particular vantage points. Um we can arrive at different ways in which we experience that thing. And we maybe

41:42 · Unknown · “Your truth” vs. objective truth clarified

that's some people can call that their truth because they're looking at a particular thing from a certain angle and it may appear differently or they may experience it differently. But yeah, I guess that may be one's nosis, [music] but I think you're right. Um that that's not necessarily one's truth. Uh that's one's experience of [music] the truth. Um so I just want to describe that. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. And >> no, that that's actually put very well.

42:09 · Unknown · “Your truth” vs. objective truth clarified

I'm probably going to steal that from you. definitely do. So, [laughter] um, and so, uh, the idea I like this thing that you had mentioned earlier, maybe if we're kind of addressing methods of freedom and whatnot, the idea of rectification of the interior that you had mentioned, [music] and I think that you just described that a lot within what you were talking about um, [music] perhaps the generation of the good in particular uh, with an initiatic [music] route to sort of expedite your

42:43 · Unknown · “Your truth” vs. objective truth clarified

karma and whatnot. Are there any other methods or things that you would speak to in regards to how to uh uh yeah maybe a meth methodology or uh something along the lines of expanding and facilitating one's individual freedom and maybe uh encouraging and exemplifying that for others. >> Right. Well, um, yeah. So, going back to what you were saying about, I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, but it kind of ties in. Going back to what you said about, you know, an individual's experience of um, the truth,

43:23 · Unknown · Interior rectification and perceiving truth

you know, that interior rectification, the more it's done, the more you are able to perceive the underlying truth. No human being really perceives the truth completely naked, right? That's to see ISIS without her veil. That doesn't that doesn't happen here. And that's one of the reasons we have recourse to mythology and mythic images because we can't actually say the truth as it is. But the more you undergo this interior rectification, the more the truth becomes apparent to you. And so

43:56 · Unknown · Interior rectification and perceiving truth

therefore, I would challenge not you but the people listening that maybe maybe boalked a little bit, maybe maybe kind of bristled against what I had said. What biases, what you [music] know interpretational or perceptual fallacies are you operating under that are inhibiting you [snorts] from from seeing uh the truth more um clearly more delineated. Uh now the whole thing is we go back to the beginning argument. If you don't know if you're not aware what the truth is, how can [music] you see it? or more to the

44:31 · Unknown · Interior rectification and perceiving truth

point, more apppropo, what again first Alciviatis uh kind of explores is what if you think you know the truth? Well, then you can't learn the truth cuz you can't learn something you think you already know. So that's that and that is why like when people go into initiatic orders and project onto them what this experience should be this if I'm going to join an esoteric order it's got to have this it's got to do that they've got to like these people they've got to work out of

45:06 · Unknown · Letting go of assumptions to learn truth

these books okay so now you're not open you the truth will not reveal itself to you because you already think you know what the truth is and you're just in you're engaged in this like going on a roller coaster poster. It's an experience I want to have. This is [expletive] cosplay at that point. Okay. Now, [music] in order for the transmutation to happen, whether it's initiatic or otherwise, you [music] must allow yourself to undergo the negreo. Okay, these principles of alchemy aren't an

45:39 · Unknown · The alchemical process (solve et coagula)

analogy we borrowed. They're an an there are principles that underly they are the formula of creation. There are the tetra grammaton and the pentagrammaton. Those aren't they're not just names. Those are formulas. They are elemental and spiritual formulas of rectification. And [music] they are, as Phoenix would say, and it's brilliant, holographic and fractal. They exist in everything at all times. So we didn't superimpose the analogy of alchemy onto spiritual things. We took spiritual things and

46:19 · Unknown · The alchemical process (solve et coagula)

realized that pattern in alchemy. And no matter whether that's initiatic, whether that's in a formal order or whether life does that to you, you have that real tower tower card experience as the as you know uh uh um cabalists might say in accordance with the the tarot. That's alchemy. That's alchemy. You are breaking apart what is there completely separating it out preserving that which does not die in the fire and exalting that putting it together with that at the top spirit at the top that's the

46:53 · Unknown · The alchemical process (solve et coagula)

pentagramaton okay so if I were to say are there any other methods it's the method of alchemy and it's not that oh alchemy was chemistry originally it was concerned with this and we made it spiritual or vice versa It's a formula that exists in everything. It's like finding out the [expletive] universal equation, okay? And just we can you can see it everywhere because it is everywhere. And so that's the whole thing you have to I think undergoing any kind of change spiritual personal um

47:28 · Unknown · Alchemy as universal transformation principle

psychological being cognizant of the alchemical formula can only help you because you're going to be aware of these processes and you can even use the symbolic elements of air, water, fire and earth and the quintessence spirit you know azot ends whatever it is to to sort of awaken these things in their due season and proport proportion within your sphere of sensation. You can bring them to activity and that in your in your subconscious and conscious mind. This is what Jung wrote about. You know, he

48:00 · Unknown · Alchemy as universal transformation principle

didn't he definitely realized that it was spiritual, but he just couldn't write about it that way because he would have been, you know, out out the door. But, um, I think that that's super important. That's the way to, uh, to go about it. >> Yeah. I'm so happy and grateful that you're out there doing what you're doing, being a solid and articulate representative for these sacred currents, if you will. We need you, I feel. Um, are there any additional Yes, absolutely.

48:34 · Unknown · Methods for cultivating freedom and awareness

Um, are there any additional notes or comments that you wanted to touch on in particular in regards to freedom? Um I think you know freedom on multiple levels what does that look like right it essentially means not just self- sovereignty but self- sovereignty as equating in self-sufficiency meaning that I don't have to turn anywhere else or to anyone else to be able to make a decision and move myself forward um without without hurting anyone else, you know, out of malice or apathy. And um and I think that that has bearing with

49:34 · Unknown · Self-sufficiency and inner responsibility

our being able to perceive the truth. That's a huge thing. I think most people that are listening to this are thinking right now, well, you know, I can definitely perceive at least some of the truth. And I would challenge you and say, no, you can't. Um, [clears throat] I'm not just take that for what it's worth. Take those words, you know, take those words and take my challenge and now go and prove me wrong or prove me right, [music] but do something with it, you know. Um, think on these things,

50:09 · Unknown · Mental diet and influence on behavior

[music] examine yourself. It all has to start inside and then it can move outward. It will naturally move outward. That's the natural kind of pressure gradient of these things. It all starts inside. That's why curating your mental diet is so important. People will put desires, they'll put fears, you know, news channels, media, movies, you name it. Music that you listen to. You know, people are wondering why like everybody's anxious. Well, you've been listening to melodic death metals since

50:43 · Unknown · Mental diet and influence on behavior

you were six. Yeah, you're having fun. It's great, but it's it's anxiety in in terms of vibration, you know? So it's you're you're feeding yourself these c particular states, ideas, images, feelings. They're getting in here by what you are consuming and then working their way outward in your behavior and your choices. Okay? So everything starts inside. That's where you have to begin if you want to find freedom. That means being able to make a choice instead of being

51:18 · Unknown · Mastering thoughts to change actions

led around by your [expletive] nose, by your emotions, your fears, your desires, your lust, all that stuff, your sense of self-preservation, right? That whole socioeconomic Darwinist [expletive] they shoved into your head. And even if you're a [expletive] staunch communist, don't go taking that stuff out on your parents. What do you think that is? What do you think that aggression is? It's a manifestation of your own unhealed trauma. You're projecting everything that you hate that happened to you onto the exterior world. You're

51:53 · Unknown · Mastering thoughts to change actions

becoming an abuser. Okay? So, everything starts on the inside and then it will naturally through the natural course of events, pressure gradients change itself. If you want to change your behaviors, you have to change your thoughts first. You have to change the interior of mind and then then the change in behavior is effortless. It happens as a consequence, right? Because you're working from the center of the ocean outward. There's more power there. I'm not going to change the direction of the tides from

52:21 · Unknown · Inner work as the path to true freedom

the shore. That's not going to happen. There's too much force. That's the secret. You know, that is an oult secret. You work inside outward. Um and uh so send me a check for $29. No. [laughter] But that's really it, you know. And then your life will be free no matter what. No matter what, they can't they'll never get what's in here. And your life will remained ordered in um to the best possible conception, the highest possible good at all times because that's what you have become inside and

53:02 · Unknown · Closing thoughts and where to find the creators

that's what you embody. >> Amen. So first >> that's a to that's a toer. >> Yes. Free your minds everybody first and foremost. Um >> free mind your ass will follow. >> Yes, beautifully said. Um I second all of that. There's not much I can add that would uh add much to that. Uh Ike, where would you direct people to learn more about yourself, your channel, what you got going on? youtube.com uh arrcanumm a r can vm. Um all my other stuff, my my Patreon uh is all linked in the comments section

53:49 · Unknown · Closing thoughts and where to find the creators

and on my my sort of uh homepage, my channel page there. Um [clears throat] for the cost of a cup of coffee a month um or two cups right now cuz we've got this podcast. um you can support us in what we do and uh >> we're not we're not we're not getting rich, you know, we're not uh we're not driving fancy cars. We're just um trying to keep I'm going to I'm trying to keep doing this uh because I have real world responsibilities. I'm not uh I'm not an

54:25 · Unknown · Closing thoughts and where to find the creators

influencer yet. [laughter] >> Maybe you should start shaking your booty on Instagram. [laughter] Oh, just kidding. >> Nobody nobody want to see that. >> Somebody somewhere in the far reaches of the universe might. But um yeah, so for me uh >> Philosophical Minds podcast, uh find it on all the major RSS feeds, the Spotify, the iTunes, all that good stuff. Um, and if you're listening to this on the future, um, if this is a public release episode on the RSS feed of the Etherica podcast,

55:03 · Unknown · Closing thoughts and where to find the creators

please consider coming and joining the Atherica Patreon at uh, patreon.com/etherica and that would be great. It would mean a lot. If not, maybe just um, tell your friends, share this episode, whatever. All appreciated. Um, and yep, that's that's about it for me. So, this was awesome and amazing as usual. Thank you, Ike, so much. And thank you everybody who's listening. >> Yeah, thank you, Sky, man. And yeah, thanks to uh whoever listens to me rant for hours. I appreciate it. I do

55:41 · Unknown · Closing thoughts and where to find the creators

>> indeed. All right. [music]