0:00 · Unknown · All right, welcome to uh the Aether podcast.

computer. All right, welcome to uh the Aether podcast. I am here uh Sky Matthysse with my man, the legend himself, >> Ike. >> How you doing, Ike? >> Good, man. Um little hectic today. I am broadcasting from the library of the Asheville Masonic Temple because internet is down at my place. >> Kind of cool though. I'm actually kind of happy about it. It's pretty sweet background you got going on there. >> Yeah, it's real. >> How are you, dude? >> I'm I'm pretty good. Not too bad. I

0:49 · Unknown · worked in the sun today, so I got to absorb

worked in the sun today, so I got to absorb some of that vitamin D3, >> so that's always a plus. Sometimes it's a little hot, but >> yeah. >> Yeah. But okay. So, today we're going to do kind of like a a cobalistic Q&A. Uh I just recently kind of I picked up this book, Godwin's Cobistic Encyclopedia by David Godwin. I was kind of just poking through it, kind of highlighted and uh a few different interesting things I came across and questions I had. So, I thought it would be fun for me and you

1:25 · Unknown · to kind of poke around at some of my questions

to kind of poke around at some of my questions and you to give your takes and your perspective and um inform myself as well as the listeners. So, I think this will be fun. >> But I am I just want to preface this by saying like even though I've studied this for a long time, I am by no means any match for an encyclopedia. But >> no worries. >> I'll do my best. Yeah, >> the cabala the cabala gets a little obscure because what we have to remember about the cabala is that there is no single

1:56 · Unknown · cabala.

cabala. The cabala is itself um a a a long chain of of of mystical speculation and contemplation that extends from early rabbis and goes to Christian cabalists and goes to uh modern uh occultists. And so there's a lot of transl uh interpretation, I should say. There's a lot of evolution and uh there's a lot of different systems. So it's like it's not it's not something that you can just say, "Oh, here's what this means." It's like, "Okay, what is this? Who what school of cabala are we

2:34 · Unknown · talking about?" So I may have to I may have

talking about?" So I may have to I may have to, you know, >> that's probably a good starting point. Maybe you can kind of just like delineate maybe like Cabala with a K versus Kabala with a Q versus Cabala with a C. Uh maybe you can kind of just like give the rundown on on the a few of the different systems and then we can go from there. >> Yeah. So, uh, right, as you mentioned, there's Cabala with a K, there's a Cabala with a C, there's a Cabala with a Q, and they

3:03 · Unknown · all denote, uh, something very particular when when you see

all denote, uh, something very particular when when you see them spelled that way, at least for, you know, when you're when you are looking at something that is in the know, right? So, plenty of people online that probably don't understand that differentiation and so they just kind of spell it however they've read it. >> Yeah. >> Um, but there's reasons. Cabal with a K. Well, first of all, it comes from uh the the root of the word is is Hebrew Kel, which means reception or to receive. And

3:36 · Unknown · uh it's uh kofet lamemed.

uh it's uh kofet lamemed. That's how that word is spelled in in Hebrew. And um so you have that and uh cabala is is more like uh the reception, the transmission, the tradition, that kind of stuff. So um it's uh you know it one of the things that's said about Cabala is that it was an oral tradition and it predates the oral tradition predates it being written down. Um there's nothing really in my opinion um at least historically to substantiate that. Now that doesn't mean that people weren't you know uh

4:18 · Unknown · speculating and contemplating and and there that there wasn't any

speculating and contemplating and and there that there wasn't any kind of oral tradition. Um as a matter of fact most ancient traditions you know uh particularly spiritual or initiatic which indeed you know uh studying religions can be right. Um in order to get into a religion there's usually typically initiations like circumcision, baptism uh you know the um certain rights that you have to perform. But there's nothing that suggests to me that it was as firmly delineated and specifically Judeaic as is claimed. As a

4:57 · Unknown · matter of fact, I find more evidence for there being

matter of fact, I find more evidence for there being a pre-existing system of what we would nowadays consider Cabala in ancient in ancient Greece and the helenized world and and Greco Egyptian Roman Alexandria. really there is much more of a tradition because the the Cabala with a K stems essentially from a a tremendous group of writings called the Zohar which was written in I believe the 1300s in uh uh by Moses de Leon and um I think it was in Toledo, Spain, but anyway um so kind of this medieval spa Spanish

5:40 · Unknown · uh you know interpreter and mystic writes these things down

uh you know interpreter and mystic writes these things down and and essentially creates this this Zoharic tradition which is which is the beginning of of real cabalistic uh exedigesis. Now there's one other text called the sephriets and that's extremely there's and technically there can be a third one the sephra the book of illumination or book of brightness. The sephriets is the book of formation, the book of of creation really. And it basically it's a it's a shorter treatise than the

6:14 · Unknown · volumes of the Zohar, but it basically corresponds the creation

volumes of the Zohar, but it basically corresponds the creation of the material universe to the letters of the Hebrew alphabet. And that comes from this whole idea where like when God in Genesis makes things, he doesn't make it with his hands. He says it. God said, "Let there be light." And there was light. >> And when you speak about the I think you said the book of light, was that another Hebrew text or was that in a different language or what was that about? >> No, that was that that's another that's

6:45 · Unknown · another Hebraic text.

another Hebraic text. It's another um sort of uh mystical rabbitical um take on that stuff. It's a lesser work I would say, but but still still still good. Now, even within, you know, so in other words, capital K cab K C K C K C K C K C K C K C K C K C Kabala is the Jewish Cabala. It's specifically Hebrewic. It's it falls within a rabbitical lineage. And um essentially, uh sorry, my camera is >> is kind of messing up. >> Oh, good. Your audio is still Okay, cool. >> Um so, so we have the capital K cabala.

7:23 · Unknown · It's specifically Hebrew, specifically Judeaic.

It's specifically Hebrew, specifically Judeaic. And even within that, right, because it spans a really long time, even though, you know, on, you know, the extent historical texts bring us back to to the the 1300s or 1400s. Um, that's still a long time, right, from then till now, right? So, uh, there's a lot of different Hebraic or Judeaic or rabbitical schools, right? There are different schools. There's there's uh uh sabati um >> uh yeah well there there's right there's

8:00 · Unknown · sadian uh cababalism there's uh luranic cabalism um there's uh

sadian uh cababalism there's uh luranic cabalism um there's uh you know Ibraim Abuafia had his own interpretation which was brilliant uh of of the cabala which um uh seekers of unity I think Zeb from from that that channel, he did a really good thing on. I'm more of a Laurianic guy because that's kind that's really what where that's really where the Golden Dawn stuff, the the capital Q Cabala kind of comes in that initiatic system. Now there are there are rumors that like the

8:41 · Unknown · Golden Dawn also has to do with the you know

Golden Dawn also has to do with the you know um Sabatian uh uh uh Cabala but I don't see it um and there's been a a lot of exesis on it from where I stand in the Zelra that this minor grade I could I could absolutely be proven wrong as you go further but I I don't see it to me it's like there you know it doesn't matter that uh West God or Mathers were reading that stuff, what is present in the in the philosophy of of the order system. And to me, it's Laurianic Cabala with the tikunam and and all that sort

9:20 · Unknown · of stuff.

of stuff. But my you see, it's it's easy to go off and digress on this because this is a labyrinthian subject. This is a tremendous subject. Uh but so so and then you have later on in the Renaissance really at you guys like Athanasius Kerser um but principally uh Pico de la Miranda u you also have Giannis Rrookland he did great work but but Pico De Mirandola he was very influential because he was uh a close associate and friend uh of Marcilio Ficino who during you know uh the Medici dynasty in Florence

10:00 · Unknown · translated the works of Plato, the works of Aristotica, right?

translated the works of Plato, the works of >> Aristotica, right? >> The Yes. The Corpus Hermeticum, um the uh the you know the works of Platinus, he did all these things. He translate he brought us I mean almost single-handedly brought us the Renaissance this at the behest of his patreon. So um Pico was a little bit younger and his thing was that he studied with like this anonymous or unidentified very mysterious character. He was a rabbi, an Italian rabbi rabbi, I believe, and he taught him how to read and and and write

10:33 · Unknown · in Hebrew and and essentially taught him the Cabala.

in Hebrew and and essentially taught him the Cabala. And when Pico found the Cabala, he basically said, "My God, this is a filing system for, you know, all of polytheism, but more importantly, this is this predicts this is almost a ma mathematical proof for for the Christ." And uh and so therein you know with works of uh Yiannis Rukland who I believe he met during his lifetime and and then Athanasius Kerser and then you going further you have Norvon Rosenroth who wrote Cabala Nudata or Cabala

11:09 · Unknown · unveiled um which was translated by Mats in in the

unveiled um which was translated by Mats in in the 1800s at the behest of Wescott. But those guys that group of scholars and and I mean mo most of them if not all of them were theologians you know they were monks they had ordination they you know they had orders. So um they created essentially a Christian interpretation that is cabala of the sea. We call that the Christian cabala. It was primarily from those works that the scholars and lay researchers of the 1800s began to cobble together uh and

11:47 · Unknown · and the 1700s, right?

and the 1700s, right? You you definitely had in French occultism, you definitely had a cabalist very strong cabalistic uh influence in the Elu Collins of Martina Depasquali. Um you know, you see it, it's all over Martinism now. Elephice Levy was talking about it. So, you know, even earlier than the end of of of the 1800s because because he was writing, I believe, in the 1830s, 1850s, um, this Christian cabalistic framework was essentially uh, exumed or resurrected or or you know what, it it wasn't dead because it was

12:26 · Unknown · still being worked in in Hebraic like rabbitical communities, but

still being worked in in Hebraic like rabbitical communities, but um, it was pulled out of or pulled further out of its kind of like theological millu and brought to to to application um in in a much broader use. So they began using it with Antoine Cord de Gabalon and um you know Atelier those those Frenchmen I believe in the 1700s or 1800s they were talking about the tarot and and its correspondences and and uh to the the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet which basically that's what the sephur

13:03 · Unknown · you know is talking about these formative letters.

you know is talking about these formative letters. So, so they they they brought it to bear on everything and they made it available for anyone who wants to study occultism and they kind of updated it uh to to fit with you know a broader understanding um uh right because when you take something out of this niche millu you kind of expose it again to the light of day and you know people who have been working a particular system and you find it in magical orders today and you see there's no better example than academia But you

13:36 · Unknown · get people who are so they're just drilling things over

get people who are so they're just drilling things over and over, you know, head in the books and they're kind of not able to see the forest for the trees, you know, they're they're hyper specifying. It's a hyper niche. And so, um, it gets a little it becomes logically absurd. Um, meaning that their logic starts to take on these almost it folds in on itself. Um, and you do see that a lot in a lot of the the um cabalistic exesis uh the Zaharic interpretations and and and stuff like

14:14 · Unknown · that.

that. It's you sometimes you read it, you're like, what? This logic of course only makes sense to people in that, you know, contemplative Judaism, you know. So, and it's not that it doesn't have value. There's a tremendous amount of value, but there's just some stuff where it's like, you guys have been looking at this for too long. Um, well, somebody is blasting AC/DC on a motorcycle. Sorry. >> No worries. It It seems like it's not picking up it. So, >> okay, good. That's good because it made

14:48 · Unknown · the window shake.

the window shake. But anyway, so so then that's Capital Q Cabal. And now you have this kind of um interpretation uh from a a magical point of view. really it gets combined with hermitism in the in the cabala. It becomes the hermetic cabala. And that's really when you're reading Dion Fortune, you know, when you're reading Crowley. I hope you're not reading Crowley, but you know, there's something to learn from everybody. Um, book four was good. Not going to knock it. Uh, and from, you know, what have

15:19 · Unknown · you, that generation of occultists.

you, that generation of occultists. Um, you're reading Capital Q Cabala. So that's that's that's the basic delineation for anybody that wants to go a little deeper in that stuff. Obviously I've done a good amount of work on that and in my introduction to Cabala series um and also uh and and some of the tarot stuff that I've done because that's very much linked to the Cabala in uh in Capital Q uh Cabala. So I've I've done some of that stuff on my channel on the

15:47 · Unknown · Arcanum channel.

Arcanum channel. You can check that out if you want to go deeper. Well, I want to start out with uh Jamatria and I wanted to read a passage first and then kind of get your thoughts. So, uh it's out of this specific book that I was speaking to in the beginning. Um so, it says, "Those who argue for the validity of of gamatria seldom advance such embarrassing examples. Far more popular are such numerical identities as quote unquote love and unity which both equal 13. In any event, the correspondences are always interesting.

16:26 · Unknown · It should be pointed out that numer numerology of this

It should be pointed out that numer numerology of this kind works equally well with any alphabet and any language. If one assigns numbers to letters of the English alphabet from 1 to 26 consecutively, one may arrive with little experimentation at any number of astounding numerical correspondences. For example, quote unquote Jesus and quote unquote Messiah both add to 74. Jesus is 10 + 5 + 19 + 21 + 19 or 74. Messiah is 13 + 5 + 19 + 19 + 9 + 1 + 8 or 74. Incidentally, the English word quote unquote God in this

17:11 · Unknown · system adds to 26 the same as Yahweh Yhv in

system adds to 26 the same as Yahweh Yhv in Hebrew. One may therefore argue that gimatria and in fact all numerology is the purest nonsense. On the other hand, one may take such phenomena as proof that it does have validity. In any case, it is doubtless a mistake to take it too seriously or carry it too far. Doing so can result in the grossest delusions. Nevertheless, numerology does form an interesting exercise that enhances the thinking process or at least one aspect of the thinking process. So on and so

17:51 · Unknown · forth it goes on.

forth it goes on. But I definitely do see um within this realm of Jamatria, a lot of you know people getting ridiculously carried away with it these days. But yeah, I wanted to get kind of your take on Jamatria, maybe its value, um its application, your overall thoughts on Jamatria. Well, let's kind of it kind of hearkens back to what I was saying about people being so involved and invested in one thing for so long that it's like it becomes absurd, you know. Um, a lot of capitalists, even capital Q would be

18:28 · Unknown · like, "What's this guy talking about?

like, "What's this guy talking about? He doesn't know what he's, you know, like how can he claim to be an initiate if he's not into he oh, he just doesn't understand doesn't understand the sign." I understand the significance. It it it's it's you're you're toggling your worldview at that point. Um but it is absurd you know from a certain perspective it's completely absurd. Um the thing is that there right it goes back to that cliche there are two ways to look at the world

18:55 · Unknown · as if everything is a miracle and as if nothing

as if everything is a miracle and as if nothing is miraculous and uh you know we definitely have gone really far in one direction. Um but uh in in terms of like our modern society and I think that you you know you the pendulum swings an equal amount in the in the opposite direction ultimately. So it's like these words have to mean something because the simulation I'm taking part in has an ultimate intelligence underlying it. And so therefore nothing there is no such thing as coincidence. There is no such

19:30 · Unknown · thing as chance.

thing as chance. And you know what's really diff I think personally I think what is really hairy territory is when you take any text as like pleenary authority on on like the absolute authority of of either God literally wrote this through prophets and stuff like that. Um, you know, I tend to take a little bit more of I don't want to say materialist because I'm I'm definitely not. I do, you know, I spent a long time in that world of like, well, everything's speaking to me. And it it's tr you know, it's true in in

20:06 · Unknown · a certain way.

a certain way. It's true. In a certain way, it is true, but you cannot live like that forever because it does lead to delusion. You need some kind of that's why, you know, hermetic magic is supposed to be an art and a science. There has to be some component where you're testing it, where you're skeptical. That to me is the biggest issue with with pop spirituality is that it becomes this thing where it's like yes, everything is miraculous, but you also have to understand we live in the

20:33 · Unknown · realm of two truths.

realm of two truths. Right? In the ancient Egyptian book of the dead, it was like uh the word that they used for the hall of truth was actually plural. It was the hall of truths, the hall of two truths. Um and so even though everything is miraculous, everything is also dead and terrifying, you know, and and will consume you, you know. >> So, um you know those both of those things are true. So, you can't act like both of them aren't at the same time. You have to and that is the trickiest thing to

21:04 · Unknown · do.

do. That is the alchem that is an alchemical marriage. It's not the but it's it's it's it's a lesser kind of stage of alchemical marriage is blending the objective and the subjective and saying like oh these are both true at the same time >> you know it doesn't it's not it's never e either or you know um but so geatria is is interesting I think that a lot of value can be extracted in certain instances I think that you have to look at the historical and cultural

21:38 · Unknown · millu from which texts are ultimately you know they come

millu from which texts are ultimately you know they come from and you have to say okay were these writers actually writing with this in mind and if that's the case you know then uh then examine it under that scope and I think when when things like that occur synchronistically for you in your life then that that's something you should be at least looking at >> but to sit there and fish through it like like I remember this book in like the 19 either was is either the late 90s or like early 2000s, but this guy

22:11 · Unknown · Michael Dzen came to he claimed to like find this

Michael Dzen came to he claimed to like find this like biblical cipher that like or computers found it or something and it's like predicting the future and he went down like this crazy rabbit hole of like assassinations and Israeli politics and it was called the Bible code and to me that that was just a modern version of what these Hebrew mystics have been doing with Gamatria for uh for centuries. You know, it's like I don't I I don't think this, you know, I don't think the entire thing was written sort

22:42 · Unknown · of like uh miraculously through literally by the hand of

of like uh miraculously through literally by the hand of God and and that everything corresponds to everything else. I think that's that is a that is a logical absurdity. Um meaning that like it has its own logic, but that logic is absurd. It conforms to itself. Uh but I I don't necessarily find it completely fruitless. Um there like I said there are certain instances when when it it works particularly if you're an initiate if you're an initiate in a modern kind of iteration of the

23:16 · Unknown · Golden Dawn or let's say you know God bless you

Golden Dawn or let's say you know God bless you Lima um or even Orum Solless. So like a lot of those rituals like called off of the golden dawn stuff specifically they're going to they put in the gamashria they're in the rituals it's there for a reason they're trying to point you towards it they have made a connection which is of value which is significant okay and you can't deny that because they they have intentionally found that and put it in a ritual you know they're not just interpreting um

23:48 · Unknown · you know that they have an underlying finger that they're

you know that they have an underlying finger that they're trying to point you know and like look here this is what this is supposed to mean. So in that case you would want to defer to that and and look for those things and and really uh come to understand it. But I I don't it's not that I think it's useless or even wrong. It's just you will undoubtedly be led to delusion. Like it's it's it's like it's like you know uh a beautiful mind or that Charlie day meet. You're

24:22 · Unknown · making connections that don't ne that aren't necessarily there.

making connections that don't ne that aren't necessarily there. I think that that's the inevitable eventuality of that situation. But that said, I still use it every once in a while. you know, um I use it synchronistically. When I see something that corresponds and relates to something that I'm dealing with or thinking about or mulling over or an energy that I'm working with, I'm like, "Okay, this is cool. This is important." So, I I'd rather use personal synchronicity to guide me

24:50 · Unknown · rather than trying to figure out this objective quote unquote

rather than trying to figure out this objective quote unquote cipher uh in in in scriptural texts. >> Definitely. All right. All right. So, I'm going to read another passage and I'll ask a question and get your thoughts. Um, >> oh, one one second. I I just want to add one thing. There was a version there was a version of gamatria that preceded preceded it. It was called isobi coming from the Greek esop sephos equal pebbles. And they were they they were doing this stuff in in in ancient Greece as a as a form

25:25 · Unknown · of like numerical uh reduction of um of words.

of like numerical uh reduction of um of words. So yeah, I guess I should have started with what Kamatrio was, but uh just briefly it's when in in in most scriptural languages, particularly Greek and Hebrew, they didn't have numbers. They had letters that represented their numbers. And so the you know gamatria or isobi is also called in in in modern kind of uh capital q cabalism theosophic reduction. You take the letters that are next to each other and you add them and you want to get to a single digit. Uh

26:08 · Unknown · and then that number will say something especially based on

and then that number will say something especially based on correspondences uh what have you in in terms of um Pythagorean mathematics or having to do with the mathematics of the uh or um or the the really the mathematical metaphysics of the tree of life. So >> okay. Um all right. So one small variation noted in the entries of this encyclopedia is the astrological attributions and Hebrew spellings of the names of the spirits of the Galatia. The mystical magical order of the oram solace has an alternative system that is

26:45 · Unknown · of sufficient importance to be taken into account as concerns

of sufficient importance to be taken into account as concerns the angels of the Shamha meph. However, the arm solless uses the names the name attributes as the golden dawn and Crowley attributing the first such angel to the first quint quint of Leo rather than Aries. According to McGregor Mats who wrote the bulk of the materials used by the Golden Dawn, the zodiac zodiac should start at 0% Leo rather than 0% Aries. and he defined the star Regulus as being exactly at 0% Leo. Consequently, at least as far as the

27:26 · Unknown · Golden Dawn is concerned, the astrological attributions of both the

Golden Dawn is concerned, the astrological attributions of both the demons of the Galatia and the angels of the Shemaresh start at 0% Leo. So this one I just was curious um as to your perspective as this sort of um like in your opinion is that an accurate assessment the 0% Leo um and is this related to like the animi um I guess it could be related to the animi but in a certain way but I think more so um I get why matters would do that right I His order was called the golden dawn, right? And Leo is the doicile of the

28:12 · Unknown · sun, you know, it's technically the um the sun at

sun, you know, it's technically the um the sun at its at its zenith, you know. Uh but um in terms of the arrangement of of the angelic powers, it all depends on what you're what you're what you're doing um and how you're viewing this stuff, right? Because the thing is the you you talk about the quinnences and you talk about um you know the decanss and things like this you talk about the shem you're essentially talking about again the permutation of letters that's I mean

28:56 · Unknown · that's what this is so in other words an angel

that's what this is so in other words an angel from these perspectives is not like this I mean it has this objective quality to it but that objective those characteristics And those qualities change as you permutate the letters. The letters are the defining that we call them you know like telismatic or or really yet erratic images um are the the composition of the the the the power as embodied by the letters. So, um, you know, to me, when when you're talking about stuff like this, it's

29:37 · Unknown · it's not it's not something that I am like very

it's not it's not something that I am like very particular about. Theoretically, it's it just I would say that anybody that has any bones to pick with either or systems, work, use what works well for you or try both, try another, and see what happens. as long as you're not going completely out of bounds and and you start playing with with permutations that that could get dangerous. But essentially, you know, that is again going back to the sephur yet talking about the the the Hebrew

30:12 · Unknown · letters as so much more, you know, they're s symbolic

letters as so much more, you know, they're s symbolic of divine powers that created the universe. You know, God created the universe in these 22 powers, these 22 permutations, these 22 letters. And you know, a lot of that, I think, has to do with speech being a a command at times. Um, speech is not only the product of thought, it has the potential to direct thought. Um, and ultimately, right, and I'm not even sure that they they that anciently, you know, this was something they took into account, but I

30:56 · Unknown · still find it very significant, is that words are predicated

still find it very significant, is that words are predicated on vibration, and so is all matter. All matter is energy vibrating, you know. So, it's um to me it's, you know, six of one, half a dozen of the other. The thing to focus on is is is practicum, you know, practice. It's like, okay, if you're going to do these things um astrologically timed, uh try it for yourself, you know, um if you're going to start uh when when the sun is is uh at zero degrees or one degree Leo and then you you kind of go around

31:36 · Unknown · invoking these angels at different at uh at different times,

invoking these angels at different at uh at different times, give it a shot and and see what happens. if if there's anything, you know, because like it's an extremely long operation if you're doing it based on on days and and and astrologically where where the sun is and stuff like that. But um you know, so there's plenty of time for you to realize like this isn't working. >> But uh but that's that's I guess that's really my take on it. you know, I don't

32:06 · Unknown · there's some things I I don't split hairs about because

there's some things I I don't split hairs about because as anybody who's listened to me will know, I'm more about putting it into practice. And so, like I've met, especially in the last couple of weeks, it's been really crazy. Um, right, Venus retrograde maybe. I have no idea really what's going on, but I've met people that just want to intellectually box. It's like, oh, we we're kind of, you know, like I'll bring I'll I'll go into it under the

32:33 · Unknown · assumption that we're having a very casual friendly conversation and

assumption that we're having a very casual friendly conversation and it becomes this and it's fun for them. It's not fun for me, you know, but they're having an intellectual wrestling match and they want to do it every day and it's just like for [ __ ] sake, man. That's not what this is about. That we we're back into the escapist territory again. If like if if your job in the occult is to like you know have the perfect system and have you know get everything dialed in and get it just

33:04 · Unknown · right like well good luck because if there's anything that

right like well good luck because if there's anything that you should be learning as as an esotericist it's that the world is imperfect. There's no perfect the the you know there's no alignment where it's like you get the [ __ ] you know the you know when you use those lockers in in like high school and you got to like turn it three times and get it just dialed in on the right >> you know little line there. That's not how it works in real life. Like the experience of reality actually has

33:32 · Unknown · nothing the [ __ ] to do with that.

nothing the [ __ ] to do with that. So um you know I I don't I guess all that to say I'm not gonna split hairs over something like that. >> Yeah. For sure. It kind of reminds me of like all of the various different like martial arts systems or something. You know, there's like wrestling, boxing, jiu-jitsu, uh whatever, uh you know, taekwond do, whatever, all these various uh systems of different fighting styles. And then you kind of learn under those systems. And then once you uh become

34:04 · Unknown · proficient in the various systems, then you can kind of

proficient in the various systems, then you can kind of utilize and combine each one to um do the best you can in terms of an actual fight or something along those lines. It kind of reminds me of all these different various systems and their differences and whatnot. But um >> yeah, and that's and that's the interesting thing because what you're talking about is essentially assimilating something into yourself, right? That's what martial arts does. You assimilate the movements. That's why

34:34 · Unknown · you practice these things, you know, add infinito or add

you practice these things, you know, add infinito or add nauseium really. You're just going over and over and you're like, what am I going to use this for? And then one day, you know, something happens. I don't know, something's falling or somebody kind of like did play boxing with you and your reflexes automatically defer to that particular movement because you've you've trained them the you know like as I like to say the way water trains rock and um and it just it's it is assimilated. You're doing the

35:02 · Unknown · same thing when you invoke the angels of the chemish.

same thing when you invoke the angels of the chemish. That's the whole point of this theic magic this angelic magic is not to say I speak with angels. Okay, [ __ ] Like, that's why you're not that's why you're not supposed to talk about this stuff because like you think you sound [ __ ] cool and the four idiots you're walking around in nemesis and robes with think that's really [ __ ] cool, but nobody else on earth does. Okay, so it's like you you first of all keep silence on your experiences.

35:29 · Unknown · They're for you.

They're for you. That's your guide book. Nobody the [ __ ] else's. Um but but then at the same time, you're assimilating these things into yourself, into your sphere of sensation. That's the whole point is to awaken the divine powers in you and to what we call in hermitism or really hermeticism uh hermitism is dead but um we call it in hermetic magic the rectification of the sphere of sensation. I want to make my miniature universe, my sphere of sensation, which is a western term for the more

36:00 · Unknown · popularly, you know, known eastern aura.

popularly, you know, known eastern aura. Uh, I want to rectify that. I need to make that more like the divine plan. And the divine plan is the universe. Um, so uh, you know, I'm going to quote unquote rectify. And you know, those angels, those 72 angels have a dark reflection of the 72 demons of the the Goeta. And um that's also part of the universe. We don't you know we want to we we want to we want to assimilate that in a certain way too without you know without that stuff taking over

36:38 · Unknown · you know and that's why you you you like you

you know and that's why you you you like >> you can you can bring in an angel you can sort of you can invoke an angel right but I wouldn't invoke a demon. I would evoke a demon into a triangle of art. you bind them. >> Okay. So, this might be an interesting question. The difference between evocation versus invocation, >> right? Evoke means to to call forward, to call forth, right? Like I'm evoking this thing. I'm saying you come here >> and so you you'll come if I if I were to

37:14 · Unknown · call you and tell you to come over, I'd be

call you and tell you to come over, I'd be evoking you, you know. Um, but then invocation is now I'm I'm inviting you into my magical circle, >> into my sphere of sensation. And when you invoke a particular power, I mean, especially if it's a god, you know, a deity of some kind, it can with what what they call ride you. And that means that you basically disassociate and that that power has complete control over your consciousness and your physical vehicle. Uh >> that can be tricky, that can be

37:52 · Unknown · dangerous.

dangerous. It can be done under the right situations. It's actually a powerful tool for divination. Um >> uh I've done it before, you know, in in a in a group ritual setting. I've done it a couple of times invocations but um I've been the initiating hierofont in in invocations. Uh but uh dicey tricky up to the the the people who have been doing it for a while and really know what they're doing. Um so invocation is in right starts with I am. It's telling you I'm allowing it in.

38:25 · Unknown · Evocation is I'm calling you forward in front of me.

Evocation is I'm calling you forward in front of me. And when you do that in in in in you know uh godetic magic or grimmooire magic, you're calling them into a space that is set aside for them. And it's typically a triangle. They call that the triangle of art. And it binds them by divine names. And then you would use you know a a properly consecrated um ritual implement typically some kind of sword uh to basically threaten and command and bind them. Binding is the most important thing. Now I said earlier

38:58 · Unknown · that's what I would do.

that's what I would do. I was talking about that's what I would do in terms of technique and and uh sequencing protocol. I wouldn't invoke a demon. I wouldn't evoke a demon. I just I have no desire to do that in my ritual work. Um I if you're doing that something is I mean unless there are certain instances where I could see that being beneficial. But if you're calling forth demons to like get you a new car, you are [ __ ] You need to stop. you need to stop. You need to sit down, take a cold [ __ ] bath,

39:29 · Unknown · you know, somebody's got to slap you in the mouth.

you know, somebody's got to slap you in the mouth. Really, don't do that stuff. That's uh that's my take on that. >> Yeah, definitely. So, when I'm kind of going through this encyclopedia, there's obviously there's it's just tons of different names and intelligences and all sorts of stuff. And a lot of things will say, like, for example, there's one um adamiron and then it gives the Hebrew uh letters for it. It says the bloody ones, quiloth of Taurus. Um, in your

40:00 · Unknown · understanding like you like like many names are attributed like

understanding like you like like many names are attributed like this where it says the clipith of X on constellation. So are there like separate uh clipos or trees of death andor upright trees of life for each zodiacal sign andor constellation or what's up with that? Well, essentially what it is is it's um so a kipot typically if you're talking about like at least capital Q kabala um as it has been because it's it's different in um in in K cab Kabala in Judeaic Hebrew Kabala if you're talking

40:43 · Unknown · about it in capital Q Kabala anytime you're saying kipoth

about it in capital Q Kabala anytime you're saying kipoth one usually thinks of the averse tree the downward tending tree the inverse tree which it's it's essentially adjacent to it abuts against Malcoot and descends downward um into dense dense dense densest uh materiality um it's sort of like an inverted spirit of of of materiality or highly a hilic world um which is not animated ated to the same extent by divine power as the upright tree is and the realm of Malcuth and so the light is

41:31 · Unknown · severely diminished there um if you want to use an

severely diminished there um if you want to use an analogy severely diminished whereas in Malcou it's balanced there's about an equal amount of light and darkness um in uh in terms of being in terms of you know sort of distal proximity from you know the light of Keter and the a suf uh the averse tree is really really far into um you know that kind of uh just realm of darkness the tree of death right sometimes it's it gets called but that's not always the case they're not always thinking of the

42:08 · Unknown · lineoglyph of the tree of life and its and its

lineoglyph of the tree of life and its and its inverse and its inversion when you're talking about um you know Hebrew cabala the thing to is to delineate you know the the the clipalt uh clip Clip off. Clip off. I believe it's now I believe it's it's now kind of taught that it comes from a misspelling in Genesis where um essentially they were like two extremely similar words for luminary luminaries and versus curses. So Genesis describes the the the creation of the sun and the moon by God uh as curses um

42:48 · Unknown · rather than uh luminaries.

rather than uh luminaries. Right? It should have been luminaries, but there was some kind of spelling mistake. So, in the Zoharic tradition, it says, well, this has to have meaning, so maybe there's something here. And it kind of delineates this this story of like the moon like degrading and subjecting itself um to to rectify like, oh, no, no, it has to mean something. If this was written by God, uh there are no accidents. Like, it's it wasn't luminary. It was curse. The the the lum,

43:17 · Unknown · you know, the luminaries are curses.

you know, the luminaries are curses. So that that I believe is where now it's it's it's taught or at least agreed that that the the the origin of that not the word but the term you know the way we use it for these things. Jump jump jump you know fast forward uh to um I think the 15 or 1600s you have Rabbi Isak Gloria and his Laurian Cabal. He was a great great great rabbi and a tremendous mystic and tremendous man. you know, they called him the lion, the Ari. Um, but that has messianic uh connotations to it

43:56 · Unknown · in Hebrewism in in Judaism.

in Hebrewism in in Judaism. But, um, he talks more about the the the clip art being husks or shells or like peels like an orange peel that contains the divine light. And you know the he's got this idea that there was this first creation and the the the vessels that these these shells that were to hold the light broke. They couldn't they couldn't handle the force and and the shards um remained in densest materiality on the densest level. The light kind of retracts itself, gathers itself back up

44:31 · Unknown · to to unity and then tries again.

to to unity and then tries again. And it's successful this time. But pieces of the divine light are stuck in these shattered vessels and they're still there. And so when the the projection when the projection of of or the emanations are are sort of projected, it's done so on top of the clipoth and there's little shards or pieces of of the divine light shakina um that are stuck trapped in these vessels. And so you have the tikun which is this idea that like you know we have to or a

45:05 · Unknown · savior has to or you know we just in general

savior has to or you know we just in general have to rescue pieces of the divine light from the the shards of the the clipoth. Um but it's at the same time you have the clipoth have a purpose here right? Uh they're to they're to give form to the divine light. They're to to hold it. They're to create the vessels that allow the divine light to be here and to differentiate. Um, so it's almost like this. They're not evil in and of themselves. It's more so they they they

45:43 · Unknown · have an exterior relationship to the divine light rather than

have an exterior relationship to the divine light rather than an interior relationship. And so they necessarily cause this dark reflection. Um, and so that's that dark reflection is why you have 72 angels and 72 demons. It's why you have, you know, the zodiacal signs and the the 12 princes, you know, the 12 dark princes, uh, which are the, you know, the averse zodiacal signs in, um, in that that uh, clipic cabala. But essentially, right, it says that the tree of life has has branches that tend upwards and downwards. And and

46:31 · Unknown · the difference is that the clip off insist on the

the difference is that the clip off insist on the duality of material illusion. That's the main thing. They never concede to for to to a unity. Whereas the upright tree, nothing on that upright tree, Gabbor gets a bad rap because people are [ __ ] Um you know, it's like you need to learn that you need [ __ ] discipline, you know, and you need to learn that violence is sometimes necessary. um you know unfortunately it's unfortunate you should not you know revel or or joy to any degree to have to do that but it is

47:07 · Unknown · necessary in the realm of duality uh in certain instances

necessary in the realm of duality uh in certain instances right you're not going to just sit there and let a child be slaughtered right take me instead um and even even still even though you're not the one doing violence look around look around yes it's a part of the it's a part of the [ __ ] creation you nuts you know Like that's it's part of the whole thing. Just because you're not doing it doesn't mean that it doesn't it like our material reality isn't

47:35 · Unknown · predicated on it.

predicated on it. I mean, you know, like what do you need to tell a lion to go veg? It's ridiculous. You know, it leads to extinction. That thing has to kill [ __ ] and eat it. You know, that's it's just a part of our reality that violence is necessary. And you know, if you can't deal with that, you are dissociating yourself from the plan. you are you are making yourself you will eventually either you will lose touch with reality if you already haven't to me to me if you can't see that violence isn't isn't

48:04 · Unknown · a part of the creation um then something has already

a part of the creation um then something has already started to go wrong with you um but but it it doesn't lead good places because essentially you're you're you're rejecting the divine plan um regardless of whether you think it's demiurgic or or was you know there's there's some kind of flaw here is still here you still have to deal with it, right? You got to eat the meal that's on the plate in front of me. Um, and you you don't do that by by rejecting it or

48:31 · Unknown · conflating it to be something that you wish it were.

conflating it to be something that you wish it were. You have to deal with the reality in order to best understand how to navigate it. Um, and that's the whole idea with the the clipoth is that it's a necessary evil. Now you see this again in neoplatanism particularly in the the the the the cosmology and theology really or or cosmoggony of Plutinus. He talks about this at length right because it's a huge problem. How is it that you know uh uh a being of light could or light itself can create darkness? Um

49:06 · Unknown · this is the the the classical problem of evil.

this is the the the classical problem of evil. And the thing that Plutinus has to say is that highly matter is not evil in and of itself, but it's evil as an end. In other words, so essentially it's it's the soul's attraction to the material because the material has that dipole. It is it is one part of the dipole of the magnetism that that that p pulls the spirit or pulls the psyche, pulls the soul, right? we'd be talking about what goes on in my head, you know, my experience, you know, that's very much

49:42 · Unknown · so how they they conceived of the psyche see soul

so how they they conceived of the psyche see soul is like me, the the the unit of me, my my kind of internal monad is I'm either reaching up or I'm reaching down. And that's true because you're never still. You never still. The closest you can approximate material reality where everything is constantly vibrating constant motion is the dynamic equilibrium which is you you're not perfectly still just this the the sine wave has become very very rarified the movements are very minimal but you're

50:14 · Unknown · still moving because you have to there's no such thing

still moving because you have to >> there's no such thing as true stasis here um and platinina said that like if you're if like matter itself which we could equate to the clip off if you're just thinking like Think of just matter un unilluminated by divine intelligence by the laws that that it has to adhere to but just matter as substance itself that is going to it will pull you downward. It's going to create this that's why there's this dichotomy this struggle internally like

50:49 · Unknown · between our conscience and the gratification of the material desires

between our conscience and the gratification of the material desires the impulses because we you know our consciousness is of the light but we're in a vessel that is beholden to the decay and death of matter and therefore matter subjects the divine to the processes of decay and death. It makes the soul experience those things which are its inherent nature. It can't hold itself together forever the way the light can self-subsisting. So now my my portion of the of the shikina, my portion of the divine light has to

51:24 · Unknown · experience death and material impulses like wanting Taco Bell at

experience death and material impulses like wanting Taco Bell at 4 in the morning, you know, and and that's, you know, because I'm not going to tell you all the horrible things I've done, you know. Uh it that's that's just that's the dichotomy and and so you know philosophers like Plato in his analogy I think it's in in either in the phto or the fedras I get them mixed up because the names are so similar um that's that analogy of the charioter and the two horses one light one dark the light one

51:52 · Unknown · go takes tries to take the high road the dark

go takes tries to take the high road the dark one tries to take the low road and the charioteer you know the soul has to kind of figure out how to create equilibrium. Yeah, it it always reminds me of like gravity and levity. I always think a lot about that in terms of like how they relate. >> Um, so a lot of so one word I came across is a or ether and it says according to some the briatic manifestation of binha and the passive principle of the sheina. I was just curious uh like what is what does that

52:25 · Unknown · mean?

mean? The briatic manifestation. Sorry, I had a um a fire truck pass by. Can you just read that quote one more time? >> So uh this word air or ether says according to some the briatic manifestation of binha and the passive principle of the sheina and my question I was just wondering when it says the briatic manifestation what is what does that mean? What is a briatic manifestation? Um so briatic ma so all things are constantly manifesting on four levels and in cabala they call that the